Drain under neighbours house is damaged.

unforeseen

I read that as it is the OPs problem not the neighbour.

I'm sure that if the blockage is now clear the drain can be lined.

I would assume that the neighbours will behaving problems with the OPs drain under their property being damaged and leaking.

OP needs to take action now to minimise any claim for damage.

EachPenny

Typhoon2000 wrote: »

I am pretty certain that once your drain goes out of your boundary ( doesnt mater if it goes out to private land, public land, council land, or the road) it becomes the responsibility of the water board.

No, the situation is a lot more complicated than that. As Carrot007 points out there are specific requirements for the sewer to become the responsibility of the water company. Unfortunately the publicity at the time of the change didn't make this sufficiently clear and has left people thinking they are never responsible.

Another one of the conditions it the drain/sewer has to 'communicate' with the public system - so for example shared drainage that outfalls into a ditch (surface water) or a private treatment plant (foul) wouldn't (normally) be the responsibility of the water company, even if it met all the other requirements of being shared and/or under someone else's property.

As far as the OP goes, one of the problems with claiming a tree/shrub etc has damaged a drain is the counter argument that the leaking drain has attracted the roots of the tree/shrub. If the drain is 100% perfect then there is no reason for the plant's roots to go exploring for water - plants don't crack open oil or gas pipes in their search for nutrients, so how would they know it was worth the effort breaking into a drain if they do not know it contains water? What often happens is leaking joints or micro-cracks in concrete/clay pipes attract the roots and the roots then grow and make the damage worse. Sometimes the roots can be the cause of the damage to start with, but proving that is the case is near impossible as the damage tends to be serious before anyone knows about it.

There are techniques available to re-line pipes which are damaged (i.e. cracked and root infested) but this is harder to do if the pipe has been physically displaced (moved) by the roots. Again, there are techniques ('bursting') which could overcome this, but at a cost. These techniques are usually cheaper than excavating under someone's house, but the lowest cost option for a relatively shallow drain is probably to re-route it.

The OP needs to study the deeds of his house to establish what rights (if any) exist to run the drain across the neighbour's land and then seek to negotiate permission to re-route. Then get quotes for a repair vs rerouting and see which works out cheapest.

Typhoon2000

Some ambiguity on the Yourkshire Water website then.

It states...

What types of drainage pipes are there?
There are two:
!!!8226; Private drains serving just one home and located within its boundary. Occasionally, there may be private sewers within the boundary too.
!!!8226; Public drains sit outside the homes boundary or serve
more than one home. They can be in private land, footpaths, public roads, gardens or public open spaces.


The leak is in a drain not a sewer according to the OP, and if the drain is outside the home boundary it states it is a Public drain.



https://www.yorkshirewater.com/sites/default/files/YWSCOP_2083%2010.2017%20Whose%20pipe%20is%20it%20%28COP%20leaflet%29.pdf

Carrot007

Typhoon2000 wrote: »

Some ambiguity on the Yourkshire Water website then.

It states...

What types of drainage pipes are there?
There are two:
!!!8226; Private drains serving just one home and located within its boundary. Occasionally, there may be private sewers within the boundary too.
!!!8226; Public drains sit outside the homes boundary or serve
more than one home. They can be in private land, footpaths, public roads, gardens or public open spaces.


The leak is in a drain not a sewer according to the OP, and if the drain is outside the home boundary it states it is a Public drain.



https://www.yorkshirewater.com/sites/default/files/YWSCOP_2083%2010.2017%20Whose%20pipe%20is%20it%20%28COP%20leaflet%29.pdf

And this is neither. As per my link it is a lateral drain. (private drain on another property).

Though it does not say much about it it appears to be the neighbours responsibility. But enforecement may be a pain (which is why I say it should be in the deeds and they should be checked), as real;ly what is in it for the neighbours to reaplce a drain that does not benefit them?

unforeseen

Carrot007 wrote: »

And this is neither. As per my link it is a lateral drain. (private drain on another property).

Though it does not say much about it it appears to be the neighbours responsibility. But enforecement may be a pain (which is why I say it should be in the deeds and they should be checked), as real;ly what is in it for the neighbours to reaplce a drain that does not benefit them?

I disagree. I believe it is still the OPs responsibility. I interpret

If the private or lateral drain* isn't your responsibility as the owner/occupier

as meaning not your responsibility because you don't use it

Especially if there is a right granted in the deeds to have his drain going across the neighbour's land. That is what needs to be checked, both sets of deeds

Ceolman

I have ordered deeds to both properties. My house is older than his so it is more likely that it will be mentioned on their deeds. I do actually have documentary proof of advising in 2014 that the lack of maintenence on the Cotoneaster was damaging their own roof and it is pretty much an absentee land lord. Deeds should arrive by 4 today so will update.

littlerock

This is interesting. I live in a Victorian semi in a street of same. There are streets at right angles at each end of my street and they are joined by another at the other end. So we have a block with all the back gardens joining on to each other. When we bought the house, we had a survey which found that we have a sewage and kitchen drain, running from the back of the house, shared with the next neighbour on the non joined side, under the boundary wall between the houses. They are all built like that on the block.

A few years back out drains were blocked and it seemed to be from the roots of next doors tree which had got into the joint trap. The water company said it is only responsible from the main supply in the road outside our houses and not for the drains at the back. It has no records of where they run nor does the council.

With our neighbour we hired a "camera mole" to find out where our drain ran. It ran away from between our houses at ,90 degrees right under the back gardens of all the houses in the block. They ran out of cable before it found a junction or outfall. So still no one knows. This is true for all the houses in the block. The real point is the water company says because they are on private land and unmapped,it is not responsible for them!.

RedFraggle

Yorkshire water will tell you who is responsible for that section of drain. They are pretty good about it and have just repaired our shared drain that the neighbour has spent 20 years rodding because they thought it was their responsibility.
The law changed some time ago making any shared sewage outflow the water authority's responsibility regardless of whether it is on your property or not.

In this case it seems it isn't shared but YWs website isn't overly transparent in identifying who is responsible so thought this might help others searching for info.

stef73

Littlerock if your house is victorian then it's pre 1937 , pre 1937 shared drains are private sewers these are the responsibility of the water company .

EachPenny

stef73 wrote: »

Littlerock if your house is victorian then it's pre 1937 , pre 1937 shared drains are private sewers these are the responsibility of the water company .

Because the terminology is really important when it comes to drains and sewers it is worth pointing out that most pre-1937 shared drains are public sewers for which the sewerage undertaker (usually a water company) are responsible. Because they are public, restrictions on building over or modifying apply - homeowners are unable to change them in the way a private drain could be modified during building works.

In effect the 2011 legislation replicated what had happened in 1937. Most existing shared private drains and sewers became public sewers. Similar exceptions apply though - for them to become public, the drains/sewers have to 'communicate' with the existing public system. Shared drains to ditches and soakaways are not included.

littlerock, you've been given duff information when told "The real point is the water company says because they are on private land and unmapped,it is not responsible for them!". Whether or not they are mapped is irrelevant, and most sewers and drains which are not mains have never been mapped. When Local Councils were responsible for drainage they were responsible for keeping something called a "Section 24 Register". This was a list (not a map) of all the properties in their area which were served by public (i.e. Section 24) drainage. The details on the Section 24 Register were one of the items which would be reported as part of housebuying local searches.

It might be worth contacting your local council to ask if you can inspect a copy of the Section 24 Register. Even though they are no longer updated, and probably not used, someone in the Council is likely to have a copy. If an initial informal request is turned down, then I would use FoI to ask the Council to confirm (legally!) that they do not hold a copy of that information. If they do have one, an FoI request would locate it. The department most likely to have a copy would be Building Control.