double glazing query

mutley74

just had some new windows in from a local company via checked and vetted. Got feedback from others before getting job done.

They installed the windows today but did not use any foam to fill gaps between frame and inner bricks. They put on plastic and around the frame inside and out.

Should they have used expandable foam to fill behind cladding?

I just cautious that there is no thermal insulation between the strips which would act have cold air behind the cladding.

Furts

Foam would be OK, but there is the risk it deteriorates with time. It could be expanding tape or whatever is recommended. It is all a grey area. The windows should be sealed to the wall on the outer face and on the inner face. this will prevent heat loss and drafts. The gaps should be small say 3-5mm so the sealant would be filling the gaps and used to bed on the trims.


If you had big gaps then this raises concerns. Also what did you specify about gap filling, sealing and trimming when you placed your order?

mutley74

Furts wrote: »

Foam would be OK, but there is the risk it deteriorates with time. It could be expanding tape or whatever is recommended. It is all a grey area. The windows should be sealed to the wall on the outer face and on the inner face. this will prevent heat loss and drafts. The gaps should be small say 3-5mm so the sealant would be filling the gaps and used to bed on the trims.


If you had big gaps then this raises concerns. Also what did you specify about gap filling, sealing and trimming when you placed your order?

this company only told me they use foam if the gaps are large. Other quotes i had said they use foam around. my concern is the gaps create cold spots behind the plastic trims. I'm a bit disappointed i spoke to the company manager and he said foam not needed, the fitter said the same too.
Some of the gaps were about 0.5 to 1 ".

Even a handyman who was working in the house was surprised they did not use foam.

dunroving

Air molecule are pretty small.

I know a local whose PVC double-glazing widows are a bit like you describe - small gap between frame and bricks/walls, with limited or no obvious filler. In the winter, if you sit close to the window, you can FEEL the outside coming in!

Mind you, they do live on the side of a slope in Scotland where the winter winds howl like a banshee.

System

It really depends on exactly what's there, a lot of windows I've seen recently have used the expanding tape type stuff to seal them rather than expanding foam,
An inch gap is fairly worrying, you'd usually see outside through an inch gap at the side of the window, if you want foam, just ask them to foam them for you

mutley74

the_r_sole wrote: »

It really depends on exactly what's there, a lot of windows I've seen recently have used the expanding tape type stuff to seal them rather than expanding foam,
An inch gap is fairly worrying, you'd usually see outside through an inch gap at the side of the window, if you want foam, just ask them to foam them for you

the gap was not around the frame, more so between the frame and inner cavity wall - if that makes sense? No foam tape used by this company.

I am peeved off as the other quotes said they used foam around the frames, i expected this company to do the same being a reputable local firm too. Plus insult to injury - they left me an invoice much higher than the price agreed on.

Furts

mutley74 wrote: »

the gap was not around the frame, more so between the frame and inner cavity wall - if that makes sense? No foam tape used by this company.

I am peeved off as the other quotes said they used foam around the frames, i expected this company to do the same being a reputable local firm too. Plus insult to injury - they left me an invoice much higher than the price agreed on.

All the company has to do is remove the internal trims - dead easy - and put sealant in the gaps. Then put the trims back on. All round a quick job for a couple of fitters. No idea how many windows you had but say two hours work. The sealant material would be far better if it were appropriate sized polyethylene rod, which makes matters dead easy - no expanding foam waiting to cure and a guaranteed thickness of foam.

Tell the company you are not paying until matters meet your requirements, tell them what they quoted against, and query any extras.

You say you spoke to the company manager - sounds to me like this person is a plonker with no interest in doing things properly and no interest in keeping customers happy. I suggest you firmly tell him what you think, in a polite way of course!

Furts

Adding to the above but changing topic slightly, it sounds as if you windows were either 1) poorly measured for manufacture, or 2) poorly positioned within the openings, or 3) a combination of both.

I say this because you report gaps of up to 25mm which is mind boggling in terms of excessive gaps.

Could the person who measured your openings read a tape measure?

mutley74

Company administrator has said the invoice is incorrect and agree with the value we agreed.

manager said he will call out on Monday to see the windows, although not much to see as they have trims on now. He could not understand by concern about gaps to the cavity behind them with no filler.

Furts

mutley74 wrote: »

Company administrator has said the invoice is incorrect and agree with the value we agreed.

manager said he will call out on Monday to see the windows, although not much to see as they have trims on now. He could not understand by concern about gaps to the cavity behind them with no filler.

An easy answer here. Simply peel back the trims, or take them off, on the windows where the worst gaps exist. Put the manager on the spot and say "explain that".

Then ask the manager if they were sub contractors fitting the windows, gunning for it on a price, and determined to cut corners to maximise their profits. Then put the manager further on the spot. Ask why they have been tardy, disorganised and lazy. Ask why the manager could not be bothered to come to your home to inspect the installation, and then sign it off after discussing all concerns with you.

You know what profile has been used so you can clue yourself up by going online. The profile manufacturer, or one of their users, will have Technical data that you can quote. Measuring and inspection should be covered. If you have the evidence show it to the manger - put them on the spot and ask why they have condoned a blatant breach of accepted practice.

You might find you have the upper hand and find the manger is clueless - many folks in the replacement window industry fit this profile!

mutley74

Furts wrote: »

An easy answer here. Simply peel back the trims, or take them off, on the windows where the worst gaps exist. Put the manager on the spot and say "explain that".

Then ask the manager if they were sub contractors fitting the windows, gunning for it on a price, and determined to cut corners to maximise their profits. Then put the manager further on the spot. Ask why they have been tardy, disorganised and lazy. Ask why the manager could not be bothered to come to your home to inspect the installation, and then sign it off after discussing all concerns with you.

You know what profile has been used so you can clue yourself up by going online. The profile manufacturer, or one of their users, will have Technical data that you can quote. Measuring and inspection should be covered. If you have the evidence show it to the manger - put them on the spot and ask why they have condoned a blatant breach of accepted practice.

You might find you have the upper hand and find the manger is clueless - many folks in the replacement window industry fit this profile!

I will see what he says tomorrow. This company have their own sub-owned factory next door to the showroom.
yes he could and should have made a site visit during the installation. I just don't want the same installers back as they will probably moan at me.