PCN charge on private land - not carpark

Bl1mey

Hi All,

There is a short dead end road near offices, it has double yellow lines on all over it, there are no parking spaces, the road is open at one end to the highway, the other end is gated but would lead onto flat waste ground (where building may take place in the future).

The short dead end road appears to be part of the highway although is private land according to maps. To access the under office garage cars must enter and drive down this dead end road to reach the ramp for garage under the offices.

There are no other offices nearby and no retail shops/cafes or other commercial sites nearby.

The Dead End road is often used as a place to drop off / wait / pick up from, this is because the main highway has fast moving traffic, double lines, a pedestrian crossing and any stopping at the front of the office would cause an obstruction.

Cars regularly park on the dead end road, either on the double yellow lines or the paved verges at the far end. A number of PCN have been received by vehicles in these positions.

Notes:
1) in all instances no obstruction is caused to pedestrians, drivers approaching the underground car park, turning onto the dead end road or looking for access to the site beyond.
2) There is no sign at the entrance of the dead end road.
3) once on the road, there are the usual unremarkable UKCPS signs on a lamp post, on the fences, on the gate screening the waste ground, and on a telephone exchange box which is roadside.
3) The Signs are the usual small print., parking is permitted with a permit, no offer of how to get a permit it made, there are of course no parking spaces as the road is entirely trimmed in double yellow lines. so it would seem as if the signs relate to the gated and cant be accessed land beyond.

A number of PCN have been received at once (seems they hanged on as along as possible before sending the first one)

Reason for issue, "without valid permit of authority"

The PCN goes on to claim, "the charge relates to a period of parking specified above"......yet there there no period specified above, there is a single time instance, (refer to as time issued). in this respect it seems no grace period has been afforded.

The PCN also mentions a site address, which, from googling is the as yet un-built site beyond the gates.


STATUS***
1) initial appeal rejected, IAS appeal has been offered although advice on here seems to be to ignore
2) Advice sought on defense and next steps


Thanks in advance

Umkomaas

2) Advice sought on defense and next steps

UKCPS don't pursue through the court system in the USA.

Not much you can do other than to wait and see what their next move is. Likely the following:

1. Debt collector letters - all ignorable. DCs are powerless, they can't sue, they can't 'send the boys around'. The frequency of letters will be around 1 per month for 6 months, including a 'final offer' of a reduced amount to settle. After this they dry up. The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4 gives you the low-down on the low-life.

2. You might then receive solicitor communications (not every UKCPS victim gets these) threatening court action unless the 'debt' is settled. Miah Solicitors are the UKCPS briefs. If you receive a letter headed 'Letter Before Action/Claim' (or similar) from the solicitors or UKCPS themselves, then the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 will help you deal with that - and any ensuing court papers, right through to a court hearing. Here's the UKCPS record of 'doing court' over the past 3 years. Compare tickets issued to court cases pursued to calculate the odds of you being so pursued.

Multiple tickets, unfortunately, carry more risk of court proceedings being issued.

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UKCPS.html

A number of PCN have been received at once (seems they hanged on as along as possible before sending the first one)

In order to hold the registered keeper liable, UKCPS must access the RK details from the DVLA each and every time a ticket is issued. In your position I would write to the DVLA and ask them to confirm how many times, and by whom, has accessed your data. Give them 'from/to' dates with 'slack' at either end to more than incorporate the entire period over which the tickets have been issued.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.za/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

How many tickets do you have?

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors..

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.

Bl1mey

Umkomaas wrote: »

How many tickets do you have?

4 with one owner and 3 with another, there must be more as many cars use this space

Umkomaas

4 with one owner and 3 with another,

Sorry, don't understand. Can you elaborate please?

Bl1mey

Umkomaas wrote: »

Sorry, don't understand. Can you elaborate please?

i am aware of at least one other owner with same issue, although this isnt my matter of concern

Bl1mey

I am interested in the collective wisdom as to whether in this case there is grounds to form a probable defence on court. I am concerned about costs escalating x multiple tickets etc.

I am no lawyer and certainly will struggle and need to invest greatly to create the legal content/copy i have read elsewhere, my thoughts are that unless there is a good angle in the OP then i may be best to save the lifeforce for something else and pay the parking firm off.

I am not happy to consider this - but old enough to know that I wont win just because i feel the charge is unjust/unlawfull and unrepresentative of the loss inured

nosferatu1001

Probably Defence. Not Defense.

Newbies thread, post 2. Read it and come back here.
The legal arguments arent complex, in the main. Basic contract law, plus Keeper Liability.

Bl1mey

OK thanks nosferatu1001

I understand from reading the newbies thread I need to suit and wait, I also believe the 2 areas of probable defence are..

1) parking is permitted (with permit) according to the sign yet all roads are double yellow lines and no parking spaces are provided. Further no offer of permit is made. So i understand this is a forbidding contract of sorts?

2) as this is a well used pick up/drop of point, i also believe there should be a grace period, in the PCN and later the refused appeal paperwork, all photographs appear to be within 1 or 2 minutes of each other- i.e they do not appear to have allowed a grace period. In the original appeal to Parking firm a request for all evidence was made. in the refusal, a few extra photos were presented but not that demonstrate a grace period has been provided.

whats your view on these points please?

Coupon-mad

Can you make your spellcheck change defense to defence as it keeps happening in your posts?

Yes your defence points have legs, just as you will see in all the other defences already written every week/month about similar roadways/permit/yellow lines areas near offices. We see this all the time and there are defences already written, search & ye shall find.

Bl1mey

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Can you make your spellcheck change defense to defence as it keeps happening in your posts?

Yes your defence points have legs, just as you will see in all the other defences already written every week/month about similar roadways/permit/yellow lines areas near offices. We see this all the time and there are defences already written, search & ye shall find.

Apologies for the Typo, I will correct that,

And thanks for the probable defence confidence, appreciated