Solicitor cannot verify seller

Ruthieo28

Sorry if this question has been asked before. I have search through and can't seem to find answer.

We have received our title report and ready to sign but this section keeps bothering and as I don't want us to be a victim of fraud, I thought I check if this is normal and nothing to lose sleep about. Thanks

First time buyer, property is a probate
The following came in the title report
Additional steps available to you
Case law suggests from time to time, it may be appropriate to ask the seller's solicitor to confirm and warrant that they have taken appropriate step to verify their clients and in doing so, they have actually reviewed the identity document that they seek to rely on.
We have asked the seller's solicitor to provide such warranty and understandly they have declined to provide the necessary confirmation. This is not unusual because even the most diligent solicitor may not be 100% certain that their client who is asserting the right to sell the property is the registered proprietor and entitled to sell. However by refusing to provide the warranty you should be aware that the seller may not be the registered proprietor.

ACG

You should speak to your solicitor to find out about what this means for you in practice. Is there anything you can do to ensure you do not become the victims of fraud?

davidmcn

Ruthieo28 wrote: »

We have asked the seller's solicitor to provide such warranty and understandably they have declined to provide the necessary confirmation.

Then why ask the question? Think your solicitors have just been engaged in some pointless ar5e-covering. No solicitor can guarantee that their client is the owner of the property (unless perhaps they know them personally), merely that they've checked their ID and far as they can tell it all appears to add up.

If there was actually something to worry about then your solicitors would be telling you (and your lender) not to proceed.

betsie

I!!!8217;m sure when you instructed your Soliciters you had to provide a photo ID like a passport and current bill /bank statement for where you live. They would then confirm from the property title deeds that you are the person named as owning the property.
This is standard legal requirement for all solicitors. Other than take a dna blood sample no solicitor can categorically prove you are vthe person the documents show. Ask your solicitor why he is concerned, does he have evidence to suggest they have falsified all the legal documents they would have provided or is this just a standard line he puts in every report on contract to cover his ****.

AnotherJoe

This is classic *rse covering by both sets of solicitors.

The sellers solicitors could have said that they have undertaken the following sets of ID checks - passport, bank statements etc etc" and then its up to you to proceed.

If i was the seller in this case and it could well be me in a few months time, I'd be really peed off with my solicitors that they wont even say what checks have been done.

Ruthieo28

Thank you all for the reply.
As it's a probate, the seller solicitor did provider original death certificate but I was also confused that couldn't they confirm the identity of the executor (children of the deceased) of the will as well.

AnotherJoe

Ruthieo28 wrote: »

Thank you all for the reply.
As it's a probate, the seller solicitor did provider original death certificate but I was also confused that couldn't they confirm the identity of the executor (children of the deceased) of the will as well.

Yes they should. Why dont you ask them if this has been done.

It seems what your solicitor asked for was an unreasonable blanket assurance that covers any and all unlikely circumstances, rather than asking what ID checks they have carried out to ensure the executors are who they say they are and then looking to see if those seem reasonable. eg have they just spoken to them on the phone? Did they see them in person and get passport and driving licence copies, etc.

You could also look yourself, get a copy of the will, look at who the executors are, see if they match with what you've been told. Have you met them? I will be selling a probate property sometime this year, its quite likely I'll never meet the buyers but i wouldn't be worried if they did contact me for something like this (and then I'd be heading off to my solicitors to give them a stern talking to ! )

Margot123

I have recently been in a similar situation, and my solicitor was very clear in telling me to 'walk away'.

The property was in Probate, unregistered, and there was a discrepancy with the spelling of one of the names on the deeds.
The Land Registry could not provide any guarantee that the property would ever be transferred into my name as it is 'up to each individual caseworker's discretion'.

The house was one that ticked nearly all my boxes but I have let my head rule my heart and aborted the purchase.
As my solicitor says 'why buy hassle?'.

AnotherJoe

That doesn't necessarily sound like the same circumstances. Unregistered, name discrepancy. No mention of those on teh OP.

I would have walked from your situation as well, but suppose this was just a standard house sale (the fact its probate is somewhat of a red herring) and the solicitor just said "i cannot guarantee that the seller is who they purport to be" (which no solicitor can) rather than "we have undertaken all the required ID verification steps including meeting with the seller, checking passport and bank details etc"

It would seem here the solicitor has done the former, possibly because they were asked a stupid question in the first place since no one can guarantee anything 100% *.

The only other question that occurs to me is, arent solicitors meant to carry some sort of insurance that would cover these sort of things, or are they off the hook if they did "due diligence" as reckoned by custom and practice?


* except death and taxes of course

cloo

Yes, this totally sounds like *rse covering to me. I would have thought probate sales are fairly safe from this given the paperwork involved? The bigger risk sales, I understand, are mortage-free, rented properties where the owners live abroad or at a distance, as people can rent them, change their names by deed poll to the owners' names and there's no mortgage company to alert the real owners that something's going on.

Slinky

We bought a probate property recently. By chance we met the vendors when they were at the property clearing out, it was the chap's mother who had passed away. As part of my checks on buying the property, I introduced myself to a neighbour by knocking on their door. Fortunately they were quite chatty, knew the neighbour and her children so it was perfectly obvious from the conversation that there were no issues to worry about with regards to ID of the people we were dealing with.

I'm hoping our chatty neighbour would spot something going on with our house as it's rented out with no mortgage and we don't live close by. The thought that somebody could change their names by deedpoll to the same as ours hadn't occured to me. We do have alerts registered with Land Registry though so I'd hope this would head anything dodgy off at the pass.