Care Assessment and Attendance Allowance

Senseicads

My Father in Law has recently had a stroke and has been in Hospital since. Hi is still in a pretty bad way to be honest. Is unable to stand has limited Motability and isn't altogether with it a lot of the time now. He is due to come home soon, and he has been assessed by the local authority that he will need carers to come in 4 times per day. We applied for the funding for the care assessment and they have said that they will temporarily pay for this, pending us applying for Attendance Assessment from central Government. This temporary funding was on the basis that my FIL and MIL's savings were just over £14k. and there would be no contribution required by them. However this has left us with a number of questions that I am hoping people can help out with...

1. If we apply for Attendance Allowance and get given this, I am thinking that this will push us over the £14,250 bottom limit for the means testing. If we apply and get given the attendance allowance is there any disadvantage to my MIL receiving this? Or will it all be taken off her as her contribution to the Care Assessment? We don't mind this, what we don't want is for the Care Allowance payment to end up costing them more than theAA payment is.
2. If we apply for AA will it cover the Care Assessment contribution? or will my MIL have to stump up additional money for the Care Assessment payments? If that is the case then do we HAVE to apply for AA as the letter seems to suggest that we do?
3. We haven't had an NHS care assessment yet. Is it better to apply for this and see if we can fund FIL's care through the NHS(I understand this is difficult to get) however that would mean that we wouldn't have to worry about applying for all these additional benefits.
4. Lastly the AA form we have seen that we have to fill in refers to the fact that FIL is already living at home and the care already in place. Well ours is in the Hospital still and we have only been told what care he is going to receive. Do we wait until he is home and we can see exactly what care he receives from the Local Authority, or do we fill it in now on the basis that we have been told what care is going to receive, even if it is not yet in place? We want to do it properly and don't want to mess it up.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give, even if you haven't got the specific answers above, any help/tips/advice you can give us on this would be very gratefully received. The whole thing has been overwhelming and traumatic to be honest and we are just trying to get to grips with what we can do to make FIL's days as dignified as possible given the awful condition he has been left in.

pmlindyloo

This is one of the most informative articles I have read about the financial assessment of care needs.

http://www.housingcare.org/downloads/kbase/3095.pdf

It is difficult to comment on your parents' in laws' councils' own policies but as you can see from the article there are certain 'rules' they must follow but have discretion with others. Certainly it is your right to ask for a copy of their policy.

Have a thorough read as it is good to know what they can and can't do.

I have seen on another thread that councils do require the client to claim any benefits that they are entitled to - whether this is to do with funding matters I am not sure - probably!

If you have any other queries then AgeUK are an excellent organisation for help and support

Senseicads

Thanks I had read that document and you're right it was very informative. However it doesn't answer the specific questions that I had above. I was kind of hoping someone would know the answers to these.

pmlindyloo

Senseicads wrote: »

My Father in Law has recently had a stroke and has been in Hospital since. Hi is still in a pretty bad way to be honest. Is unable to stand has limited Motability and isn't altogether with it a lot of the time now. He is due to come home soon, and he has been assessed by the local authority that he will need carers to come in 4 times per day. We applied for the funding for the care assessment and they have said that they will temporarily pay for this, pending us applying for Attendance Assessment from central Government. This temporary funding was on the basis that my FIL and MIL's savings were just over £14k. and there would be no contribution required by them. However this has left us with a number of questions that I am hoping people can help out with...

1. If we apply for Attendance Allowance and get given this, I am thinking that this will push us over the £14,250 bottom limit for the means testing. If we apply and get given the attendance allowance is there any disadvantage to my MIL receiving this? Or will it all be taken off her as her contribution to the Care Assessment? We don't mind this, what we don't want is for the Care Allowance payment to end up costing them more than theAA payment is.
2. If we apply for AA will it cover the Care Assessment contribution? or will my MIL have to stump up additional money for the Care Assessment payments? If that is the case then do we HAVE to apply for AA as the letter seems to suggest that we do?
3. We haven't had an NHS care assessment yet. Is it better to apply for this and see if we can fund FIL's care through the NHS(I understand this is difficult to get) however that would mean that we wouldn't have to worry about applying for all these additional benefits.
4. Lastly the AA form we have seen that we have to fill in refers to the fact that FIL is already living at home and the care already in place. Well ours is in the Hospital still and we have only been told what care he is going to receive. Do we wait until he is home and we can see exactly what care he receives from the Local Authority, or do we fill it in now on the basis that we have been told what care is going to receive, even if it is not yet in place? We want to do it properly and don't want to mess it up.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give, even if you haven't got the specific answers above, any help/tips/advice you can give us on this would be very gratefully received. The whole thing has been overwhelming and traumatic to be honest and we are just trying to get to grips with what we can do to make FIL's days as dignified as possible given the awful condition he has been left in.

I think the article covers points 1 and 2 - you would need to know what 'rules' that local council have which are over and above the mandatory ones.

Question 4 about the AA form.

It would be sensible to wait and see what happens when your FIL gets home as Attendance Allowance has two rates - care/help during day or night and care/help during the day and night. It might help if your MIL can keep a diary about help/support during day and night although obviously carers coming in 4 times a day is evidence of his needs for the day part.

Useful link for completing the form:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/attendance-allowance/

Do make sure that you have any medical evidence of your FIL's condition to send with the form. (Any physio. reports for instance?)

As regards the NHS assessment you can certainly ask for one. They are extremely difficult to get as I have experienced this with my own mother. You can google for the criteria.

Hope that helps.

Danday

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I have seen on another thread that councils do require the client to claim any benefits that they are entitled to - whether this is to do with funding matters I am not sure - probably!
t

Yes I have commented on that other post. I don't doubt that the Council will demand that you make a claim for their benefit. But the point I raised was how far would the council go if the DWP refused to give an award or only made an award at the lower rate when the council thinks it should have been at the higher rate. Will they actually force the applicant to appeal and go to a Tribunal?

It is a worrying situation driven by the greed of many councils

Nannytone

The council will accept the DWP decision/B]

lisyloo

If we apply for Attendance Allowance and get given this, I am thinking that this will push us over the £14,250 bottom limit for the means testing.

What they do is an income calculation.
So for example if he has £350 per week income and is allowed £300 per week to live on then he has £50 to contribute to care.
The attendance allowance will be added to his income (any pensions, pension credit).
It might also entitle him/them to higher pension credit.
I was suprised the allowance was quite generous (around £300 per week).

If we apply and get given the attendance allowance is there any disadvantage to my MIL receiving this?

This is part of HIS income for people to attend to his needs.
For the calculation above it will be regarded as his income.
Has you MIL applied for carer allowance? pension credit (joint)?

We don't mind this, what we don't want is for the Care Allowance payment to end up costing them more than theAA payment is.

That won't happen. It's mathematically impossible.
They will add up his income deduct what he is allowed to live on and he will pay the difference. It's impossible for you to be worse off.
If there are costs e.g. washing, bed change, harcuts, chirpody, incontinence pads etc. that need to be paid for you should submit these also. There are rules, but I would submit whatever you have (receipted) and let them rule it in or out.

then do we HAVE to apply for AA

Yes. Local authority want DWP to make a contribution to reduce theirs.

Is it better to apply for this and see if we can fund FIL's care through the NHS(I understand this is difficult to get)

I am not an expert but to get this (very difficult) his primary needs have to be medical.
As the suggestion is that he's taken care of by carers (and presumably your MIL) then it doesn't sound like his primary needs are medical as carers cannot carry out medical tasks (like intravenous drips, injections etc.). If his needs were medical he'd have to be in hospital or a nursing home. NHS do not fund "personal" care which sounds like what he is getting (washing, dressing, feeding, applying topic lotions, giving medication, making tea, checking nutrition & hydration, making sure he's ok).

Do we wait until he is home and we can see exactly what care he receives from the Local Authority

No you fill it in now. I don't know exactly what the form says but someone should know what his needs are. For example if he needs washing or dressing then he needs to be "attended" for that.

Senseicads

Thanks Lisyloo!


That was they biggest thing for us, if the care costs contribution was going to cost more than the AA payment, my MIL and us would have needed to have found the money from somewhere else. We filled out the NHS form with the doctor in the hospital, and we had a number of priority areas but we haven't heard anything since about our application. In terms of Care we need carers and he has to have a nurse once a day to give him an injection. We probably won't end up getting the NHS to pay for it hence the worry over the social care and AA payments.


thanks for responding!

Danday

lisyloo wrote: »

Yes. Local authority want DWP to make a contribution to reduce theirs.

Even though after going through the harrowing experience of filling out the form, gathering the evidence, being subjected to an assessment AND the claimant not getting anything for it??
If I would make something out of it then I would do it, but to have to go through through that so that the council can have it it's not on.
If I was in that position I would guarantee that no award was made - I'm useless at filling out those forms and as for my ability to stand up to being questioned at an assessment I would tell them that there is nothing wrong with me.
The cheek of it, if the council want extra money then they should ask the government to make a bigger contribution towards social care and not put people through that .

Keep_pedalling

Danday wrote: »

Yes I have commented on that other post. I don't doubt that the Council will demand that you make a claim for their benefit. But the point I raised was how far would the council go if the DWP refused to give an award or only made an award at the lower rate when the council thinks it should have been at the higher rate. Will they actually force the applicant to appeal and go to a Tribunal?

It is a worrying situation driven by the greed of many councils

Greed has nothing to do with it, it is all about the squeeze on available funds.

lisyloo

Even though after going through the harrowing experience of filling out the form, gathering the evidence, being subjected to an assessment AND the claimant not getting anything for it??

I can't comment on your personal experience and I'm sorry if it was bad for you, but if you want help from the state then I think they are entitled to establish what you are entitled to. Filling out forms and gathering evidence I can't see a problem with or properly and dignified assesments.
If you had a bad experience then that doesn't mean the principle of making sure people qualify is wrong n theory.

I'm useless at filling out those forms

Have you considered getting help, there are volunteers who can help with this.

and as for my ability to stand up to being questioned at an assessment I would tell them that there is nothing wrong with me.

We have been lucky without our social workers in that they know and understand that some people under-report. They also spoke to the family to get a full picture. In our case mum would complain about everything and Dad nothing.

The cheek of it, if the council want extra money then they should ask the government to make a bigger contribution towards social care and not put people through that .

I am sure they do ask the government for more money frequently.
I am again sorry if you had a bad experience but there is absolutely nothing wrong with assesesing what people need and what people are entitled to. Do you simply expect them to pay out to everyone that asks for it without question? It's pretty obvious that cannot happen. Every time we have asked for help it has been INCREASED and they have been very helpful because they KNOW that care at home is cheaper than a nursing home which is cheaper than hospital so ours are keen to help.

I would suggest you try to find help from a volunteer if you have no suitable family of friends. Age concern might be a good place to start.