Fiance dismissed for gross misconduct

ampersand

...which is not what mica2's post is about.
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The Moneysavers' Arms is open for general discussion.

Fireflyaway

I've been in my job just under six months and am finding behaviours that would have been dealt with using a quiet reminder to be more careful / don't do it again etc in my old workplace, result in final warnings and dismissals where I am now. Last week a very new person ( been there 1 week) made a mistake and was fired on the spot. So different places have different tolerance levels.
If he has been there 5 years with no incidents I'd appeal. Does anyone in the company not like him or is a bullying type of person who likes a power trip? If other people have done similar and not been punished could there be some discrimination here? I'd write it all down and present the facts. Apologise but point out the 5 years with no incidents. Agree to extra development or training. Emphasize he loves the job. I'd say firing is over the top.

shortcrust

ampersand wrote: »

...which is not what mica2's post is about.
#
The Moneysavers' Arms is open for general discussion.

I'm not sure who you're talking to but my last post was very much on topic. Regardless, the forum would be a very dull place indeed if we headed off elsewhere every time a topic wandered a bit (as they do tend to do). I'm quite happy sticking with discussing things here.

steampowered

shortcrust wrote: »

Really?! I can think of loads of jobs and loads of situations where carelessness and negligence would be very much a case of gross misconduct. I can think of a few where it would land you in prison.

I completely understand why you say that, but that's not quite what the courts and Employment Tribunals say 'gross misconduct' means.

In law the word 'gross' means something very specific. The law makes a clear distinction between 'misconduct' and 'gross misconduct', that is not always obvious to laypeople. 'Serious misconduct' and 'gross misconduct' are not the same thing.

A good example is this case https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/case-of-the-week-sandwell-and-west-birmingham-hospitals-nhs-trust-v-westwood/, which concerned a nurse who literally wheeled an unwell patient out of A&E and left them outside of the hospital. The nurse accepted this was a "serious failure of professional judgment", yet she still won an unfair dismissal claim as it wasn't enough to constitute gross misconduct.

Feel free to hit me with your examples, but if they are simply cases of serious negligence or carelessness, they would be misconduct but would not stand up as 'gross misconduct' if challenged before a Tribunal.

This is why, in cases concerning serious employee negligence, a well advised employer will sack the employee for misconduct, send them on gardening leave (or suspend them with pay) and pay out their notice period.

Sacking someone for gross misconduct is really easy to challenge in Tribunal, unless it was something very obviously deliberate like punching someone or stealing.

shortcrust

steampowered wrote: »

I completely understand why you say that, but that's not quite what the courts and Employment Tribunals say 'gross misconduct' means.

In law the word 'gross' means something very specific. The law makes a clear distinction between 'misconduct' and 'gross misconduct', that is not always obvious to laypeople. 'Serious misconduct' and 'gross misconduct' are not the same thing.

A good example is this case https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/case-of-the-week-sandwell-and-west-birmingham-hospitals-nhs-trust-v-westwood/, which concerned a nurse who literally wheeled an unwell patient out of A&E and left them outside of the hospital. The nurse accepted this was a "serious failure of professional judgment", yet she still won an unfair dismissal claim as it wasn't enough to constitute gross misconduct.

Feel free to hit me with your examples, but if they are simply cases of serious negligence or carelessness, they would be misconduct but would not stand up as 'gross misconduct' if challenged before a Tribunal.

This is why, in cases concerning serious employee negligence, a well advised employer will sack the employee for misconduct, send them on gardening leave (or suspend them with pay) and pay out their notice period.

Sacking someone for gross misconduct is really easy to challenge in Tribunal, unless it was something very obviously deliberate like punching someone or stealing.

Thanks, genuinely informative and interesting.:)