Confused and upset

MegaMug

Hi all.

My father in law passed away 13 years ago. He left no will, and a debt for which the bank had a legal charge over their house. As my mother in laws health was not good at the time, and neither my husband or his sisters could cope with sorting things, I spent months trying to sort through and resolve my father in laws estate. Eventually all was resolved with the exception of this debt, but an agreement was reached through the courts that my mother in law could remain in the house, and the children, without accepting legal responsibility for this debt, would make payments to enable her to remain in the home she loved. As my husband Has had debt issues, I made the payments from my own account each month, with my sister in laws doing the same, the residual debt would eventually be repaid from the sale of the property. My mother in,law always said she would ensure I wouldn't lose out in terms of any interest etc, and would recieve a settlement from her will. My mother in law passed away 3 years ago. Unfortunately, despite her saying so, she made no mention of any repayments to me in the will, just the fact one daughter who still lived at home could remain in the house for up to 5 years, then it would be sold and split 3 ways. I am dependant on the goodwill of my sisters in law to get back the money I have paid, but this is now in dispute. Also, my husband and I could really benefit from our share of the house. We have no income from it, yet my sister in law who is financially far better off than us is living there rent and mortgage free. She is also invoicing us for a share of the cost of home improvements which we haven't asked for or agreed to. Can we ask her to give us some kind of nominal rent? It is a Big house, and she lives alone. Surely we shouldn't be liable to pay for any uneccesarry works she chooses to have done? We are worried that the situation is becoming more tense each time we discuss it, but it feels like one sister is benefitting far more than either my husband or his other sister. Any input gratefully received. Thank you for reading.

Yorkshireman99

MegaMug wrote: »

Hi all.

My father in law passed away 13 years ago. He left no will, and a debt for which the bank had a legal charge over their house. As my mother in laws health was not good at the time, and neither my husband or his sisters could cope with sorting things, I spent months trying to sort through and resolve my father in laws estate. Eventually all was resolved with the exception of this debt, but an agreement was reached through the courts that my mother in law could remain in the house, and the children, without accepting legal responsibility for this debt, would make payments to enable her to remain in the home she loved. As my husband Has had debt issues, I made the payments from my own account each month, with my sister in laws doing the same, the residual debt would eventually be repaid from the sale of the property. My mother in,law always said she would ensure I wouldn't lose out in terms of any interest etc, and would recieve a settlement from her will. My mother in law passed away 3 years ago. Unfortunately, despite her saying so, she made no mention of any repayments to me in the will, just the fact one daughter who still lived at home could remain in the house for up to 5 years, then it would be sold and split 3 ways. I am dependant on the goodwill of my sisters in law to get back the money I have paid, but this is now in dispute. Also, my husband and I could really benefit from our share of the house. We have no income from it, yet my sister in law who is financially far better off than us is living there rent and mortgage free. She is also invoicing us for a share of the cost of home improvements which we haven't asked for or agreed to. Can we ask her to give us some kind of nominal rent? It is a Big house, and she lives alone. Surely we shouldn't be liable to pay for any uneccesarry works she chooses to have done? We are worried that the situation is becoming more tense each time we discuss it, but it feels like one sister is benefitting far more than either my husband or his other sister. Any input gratefully received. Thank you for reading.

You need professional advice by a solcitor with access to the court order and any other relevant information. Without that nobody can help you or answer the questions you pose.

getmore4less

"no legal obligation to pay the debt"

Does the court agreement put an obligation on the children to pay the interest?

If it did put an obligation on the children did that obligation cease when the MIL died?


Who are the trustees of the trust set up by the will and what are the terms of that trust?

MegaMug

Hi . Thanks for the responses.
Yorkshireman99, I have considered speaking to a solicitor, but haven't so far due to costs involved, and also hoping for a resolution beforehand. Obviously, I appreciate it may be necessary in the future. When posting, I was hoping to find some similar situations which may of been helpful.
Getmore4less, the original debt my father in law was contested by myself when he passed away due to the way in which the money was lent. After months of negotiation, the bank decreased the amount owed, and froze any interest from that day forward. Had the debt not been secured against the property it may well of lapsed with his passing as there were no assets to his estate other than the jointly owned property.
The will was done by a local solicitor, who is sole executor. I haven't heard any mention of a trust. The solicitor advised us to carry on repayments for the time being, as the bank would be unlikely to insist on selling whilst the monies continue to be repaid. As I understand from the court papers, the debt is against the property, rather than an individual. The paperwork from the time states the children are paying as a goodwill gesture, with no legal obligation, aside from the fact that if we didn't pay, the bank has the right to foreclose on the house to recover their money.

Thanks for your time

gettingtheresometime

As I was reading your initial post, I was imagining you were going to say you & your husband had split up.

However as you haven't, I'm assuming (which is always a dangerous thing to do) that you're still together. As a result Im not sure why you're upset re the repayments as the other sils are in the same boat, save one of them is living in the property.

The other sil who isn't living in the property is, in effect, in the same position as you.

The only thing I think you can do is get this sil on board & tell the resident sil that as a matter of courtesy, if you are being expected to pay towards maintenance costs, you should be consulted first.

If they're improvements would they increase the eventual saleability of the property?

PasturesNew

So many things in there, I'll pick out a few. Some things are not made entirely clear, so I'll just bullet point randomly.

Father-in-law's debt wouldn't have died with him - it'd have come from his estate, which would have been his house, so securing/not against the house is immaterial. The debt would have remained.

Did all of the sisters/you pay the same amount towards the debt? If all of the children paid the same amount towards the debt then you'll get your money back when your husband gets his share of the value of the house when it's sold .... it's just for him to hand it over to you.

Re the interest, it's a shame the mother in law didn't formalise any of that, but that's the way it is re people and wills. They say they've done XYZ but rarely get round to it. On the "lucky side" there wouldn't have been must interest to have been earnt in recent years as rates have been low.

Re improvements - it's rude to expect you to pay for improvements you've no interest in funding, but, theoretically, you'll get that back when the house is sold in the future.

While she has the right to live in the house for 5 years, she shouldn't be asking others for financial assistance without a good reason.

Unfortunately, all of this is a "typical mess left behind" by many people when things get a bit complex and people are working on say-so and promises.

You do need proper legal advice though.

MegaMug

Gettingtheresometime, For clarity, the SIL still living in the house has never made any repayments, as she was only earning part time at the time it was set up. Despite the passing years and change of circumstances she has never addressed this. The other sil, was still living in the house when this was set up, so she viewed her contribution as almost housekeep/rent, and as she stays there 3 out of 4 weekends now She has continued to pay after she left home to maintain the status quo. She says she feels happy as she has had, and continues to as she stays there each weekend so has some amenity from the property. The home improvements are more in terms of taste and preference, rather than to add value. We have our own family to support and household to run so paying for a rainforest shower for Sil to have, when We cannot afford one in our home seems a little rich to me.....
PasturesNew. I have paid more than the one Sil who has paid, and the other has paid nothing. Both seem to think the house should be split 3 ways regardless of who has paid what. Although my husband would and could repay me from his share, this would mean his share would then be reduced. My MIL had always said she would want me reimbursed for the time and expenses in sorting my FIL's affairs, but would make provision in her will for that. It was sorted that way as my husband had his own business so income would fluctuate, all monies paid were from my sole account, and after much discussion with MIL at the time. As you say I'm sure it often happens that it doesn't work out that way. Both Sil's have suggested buying my husbands share between them however he cannot agree as they have gone with the lowest house valuation and then deducted invoices for home improvements and have refused to take into consideration the monies I've paid resulting in huge discrepancies between the values. I had so hoped to avoid going down a legal route but think we may have no choice. Thank you again

silvercar

If you consider the payments you have made as being on behalf of your husband, especially as you say he hasn't paid anything, does that make it easier to bear?

If you stopped paying now, then either the sisters-in-law would have to meet all the payments themselves or the council could decide to take action to force the sale.

Either way you win. If the sale is forced, your husband gets his share early. If the SILs pay, then that balances the books for the time that you made the most contribution.

gettingtheresometime

MegaMug wrote: »

Gettingtheresometime, For clarity, the SIL still living in the house has never made any repayments, as she was only earning part time at the time it was set up. Despite the passing years and change of circumstances she has never addressed this. The other sil, was still living in the house when this was set up, so she viewed her contribution as almost housekeep/rent, and as she stays there 3 out of 4 weekends now She has continued to pay after she left home to maintain the status quo. She says she feels happy as she has had, and continues to as she stays there each weekend so has some amenity from the property. The home improvements are more in terms of taste and preference, rather than to add value. We have our own family to support and household to run so paying for a rainforest shower for Sil to have, when We cannot afford one in our home seems a little rich to me.....
PasturesNew. I have paid more than the one Sil who has paid, and the other has paid nothing. Both seem to think the house should be split 3 ways regardless of who has paid what. Although my husband would and could repay me from his share, this would mean his share would then be reduced. My MIL had always said she would want me reimbursed for the time and expenses in sorting my FIL's affairs, but would make provision in her will for that. It was sorted that way as my husband had his own business so income would fluctuate, all monies paid were from my sole account, and after much discussion with MIL at the time. As you say I'm sure it often happens that it doesn't work out that way. Both Sil's have suggested buying my husbands share between them however he cannot agree as they have gone with the lowest house valuation and then deducted invoices for home improvements and have refused to take into consideration the monies I've paid resulting in huge discrepancies between the values. I had so hoped to avoid going down a legal route but think we may have no choice. Thank you again

Unfortunately if the will states that the proceeds of the house are to be split 3 ways then that's what's got to happen....regardless of the moral fairness of the situation.

Whilst each family's finances setup are a matter for them alone, I find it strange the comment you made about your husband's share being reduced.

Sounds as if there's growing resentment on your part re the payments for whatever reason so perhaps it's a case of telling the siblings (including your husband) that it's time to stump up or sell up

MegaMug

Hi getting here.
What I meant by my husbands share being reduced is that his sisters want to deduct both the balance of the loan and the amount owed to me from their share of the equity. When they suggested they might buy him out they detailed this as his share being worth £30k less than theirs- therefore not an even split.
And yes, I'll admit I am resentful in so much as the Sil remaining in the house rent and mortgage free is able to afford a far more comfortable lifestyle, and is managing to save enough money to be in a position to buy out my husbands share in cash. Given I am paying for her home, as well as my own I do feel some offer on her part would of been fairer. I also resent being invoiced each time she fancys a changing the decor, as I haven't the spare cash to facilitate this even for myself......

I agree, I think it's time to be firmer and ask if the house can be sold.

Thanks for reading

paddy's_mum

It seems to me that you can't afford not to seek competent legal advice!

Good luck but I suspect you can kiss goodbye to any lasting friendly relationship with the other beneficiaries.