DPF Hell Van On Finance

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

AdrianC wrote: »

Perhaps you would be so kind as to post links to a few c.4yo used vans for sale, similar size but petrol?


The OP has a Vivaro. That's a van that's sold with Fiat, Renault, Vauxhall, Opel and Nissan badges. It's got one of two Renault engines - either the older 1.9 used in millions of Renault and Nissan cars, or the 1.6 also used by Mercedes across cars and vans.

My point stands - you said in an earlier post about the OP could have read the manual. I took that to mean you accept that modern diesels are unlikely to be suitable for tradespeople who do short journeys only, because they will be told that the vehicle needs to be used in a particular way.

My point about petrol is that there are solutions to the problem - either selling a product with an appropriate engine (which you are saying that they don't) or actually taking another look at the soot problem and using a fit for purpose mechanism. Off the top of my head, the problem is that it depends on the heat from the engine to burn off the soot, but you don't have to, you could have another mechanism, either electrical, some sort of heating element, or something that burns, a gas powered Bunsen burner with cartridges, or something that burns diesel in a sootless way to make heat.

My point is that the fact that the industry doesn't supply a fit for purpose vehicle doesn't suddenly void the argument that the vehicle is not fit for purpose, especially as the previous vehicle that the OP had WAS fit for purpose.

I am not really clear what your point is. Is it that the OP is somehow foolish to expect to buy a van that fits his needs, or simply that DPFs are not a problem and the only issue is that this particular van is deficient and if properly repaired can be made to drive short journeys without the need for expensive jaunts in time and fuel?

Raxiel

AdrianC wrote: »

By overfuelling, I mean that something's not happy with the van, causing it to put too much fuel in. This'd use more fuel, and create too much particulate.

The garage have forced regeneration, but have they done a full range of diagnostics (and I don't just mean reading any fault codes)? Is this a Vx dealer, a technically competent indie, or just a second-hand-van sales place?

BTW - "Hurtling"? 70 in a modern van? Let's leave the melodrama out. It helps nobody.

Too much fuel or possibly not enough air.

When I bought my first Diesel - a Volvo S60 D5 (not a van, but still relevant I think), it had a problem (unknown to me at the time) with the pipe linking the turbo to the intercooler. The result was a boost leak, and the fuel/air mix being off because the 'correct' amount of fuel wasn't mixing with the correct amount of air, which was slowly sooting up the DPF.
When the leak became a full on split (wish I'd known about my consumer rights back then) the very rich fuel mix clogged the DPF very quickly.

A new turbo pipe, one forced regen, and an Italian tune up managed to rescue the filter, and I never had an issue with it again despite a lot of short trips up until the point I sold it last month.

Given the number of times it's been back, you'd hope a boost leak - if present - would have been spotted by now, but who knows?

AdrianC

Mmm. Good point. Could even be something as simple as a badly clogged air filter - again, you'd like to think...

sevenhills

AdrianC wrote: »

Perhaps you would be so kind as to post links to a few c.4yo used vans for sale, similar size but petrol?

https://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-top-10s/top-10-petrol-vans/


Lots of small vans, I am sure there are large ones too.

"LDV says the EV80 can cover 120 miles in between charges and can be recharged in just one hour."

https://www.commercialfleet.org/van/reviews/medium-panel-vans/first-drive-ldv-ev80LDV-EV80-electric-van-review

AdrianC

sevenhills wrote: »

https://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-top-10s/top-10-petrol-vans/

Not what I asked.

Lots of small vans, I am sure there are large ones too.

But you can't find any.

Let me help you. A 2014 Vivaro is about £6-8k+vat. There are a couple of thousand vans in that price range on Autotrader.

In that same price range, there is ONE petrol van, a Transit Courier and six electric, all Kangoos. Two sizes down. Oh, there is a second petrol "van", but it's a 16yo VW with lots of seats, LHD, and a 2.8 v6.

If we filter Autotrader's vans on fuel, there are a grand total of 77 petrol vans, 71 electric, 2 hybrids (both 4x4s, not vans), 7 bifuel petrol/LPG (mostly <£1k sheds) - and just shy of 20,000 diesel vans.

Of all of those non-diesel vans, there is ONE £5k+vat petrol/LPG Transit that could perhaps be seen as being in the same ballpark. Oh, wait. It's 12 years old, not 4... A similar diesel van would be a quarter of the price.

"LDV says the EV80 can cover 120 miles in between charges and can be recharged in just one hour."

https://www.commercialfleet.org/van/reviews/medium-panel-vans/first-drive-ldv-ev80LDV-EV80-electric-van-review

Did you notice this line in there?

"Which brings us to price. Bearing in mind a V80 can be had for around £14,000, dropping the diesel engine for an electric motor and some batteries sees the price climb to an eye-watering £60,000."

For an electric van, Nissan offer the e-NV200. It's a relatively small premium over the diesel equivalent (£18k+vat instead of £15.5k+vat), for a van FAR better than an undead Chinese-Korean-LDV. Not much help given that the OP's talking about a van a size up. Renault may actually soon start selling an electric version of the next size up, the Master (from £24k+vat diesel - so three times the price of the OP's van) - they've been threatening for long enough - but there's no signs of anything in the Vivaro size, probably the most popular size of larger van.

almillar

No - firstly, petrol vans are suitable

So if the OP had bought a petrol van, and the battery or cat went because of his short journeys, what would you think? Mis-sold?

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

almillar wrote: »

So if the OP had bought a petrol van, and the battery or cat went because of his short journeys, what would you think? Mis-sold?

Batteries are pennies and I know from having an underused car that they still don't fail in months. Cat - how many people post on here bemoaning premature cat failure compared with DPF issues?

I think it is reasonably well understood that a vehicle doing short journeys is put through a harder life than one doing a longer journey life cycle. My point is though that DPFs expensively fail in very short times - we've had people having problems within a few months with a brand new car and here we have something that the OP is being told is his driving that cannot last more than a few weeks after being "fixed".

DPFs are a bodge and clearly they have a failure mode where they are taken down by simple faults. It's poor design and too many people are being affected by this poor design. I don't see why people defend poor design by blaming it on user error.

sheramber

IanMSpencer wrote: »

I'm leaning towards the van not being fit for purpose, either because it has a pre-existing fault that has not been resolved leading to excess soot production or that the engine design is poor and it is prone to clogging.

I know we so-called experts all know that a modern diesel can be prone to problems due to the shoddy implementation of DPF filters, but really, where is the sticker that is stapled to the dashboard, the saleman's forehead and PROMINENTLY brought to the attention of a purchaser that there are limitations in the way a van can be used? After all, many of us do not change vehicles regularly and 5 or 6 year old vehicles, which is when DPFs started hitting the scene with Euro 5 regs, may be the first time many local tradesmen have bought a diesel with a DPF - and not being motor mechanics, would not be aware that a newer diesel is entirely unsuitable compared with a diesel that they have been using without problem for years.

As it is a work van, consumer legislation does not apply, but Sale of Goods Act does. Clearly, this van is unfit for purpose - a tradesman buys a van for shifting tools around and there is not any expectation of significant mileage.

I would go back to EH and say "I've had enough, this vehicle is not fit for purpose. It either has a fault which is causing excess soot, or it is not of an appropriate design for my reasonable usage. You did not tell me that I had to use it in a particular way when I bought it." I would ask to return it, and accept a reasonable value taking into account a year's usage, not a low trade price with an amount for time off the road.

Did the OP tell the salesman he would be doing short journeys only? If not, then the van is not unfit for purpose- only unfit for the OP's purpose.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

sheramber wrote: »

Did the OP tell the salesman he would be doing short journeys only? If not, then the van is not unfit for purpose- only unfit for the OP's purpose.

The OP is not doing anything unreasonable.

sevenhills

AdrianC wrote: »

If we filter Autotrader's vans on fuel, there are a grand total of 77 petrol vans, 71 electric, 2 hybrids (both 4x4s, not vans), 7 bifuel petrol/LPG (mostly <£1k sheds) - and just shy of 20,000 diesel vans.

I did not search for long, here is one.

https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/independent-brokers/personalcarleasing-com/volkswagen/transporter/290641861/