POPLA Pending comments

macleaver

Hi all, total newbie to this, so after a little advice, I received a non official NCP parking fine whilst at a train station car park, last month. I appealed to them, they declined, so I appealed with POPLA, they have now received a response from NCP, (over 2 weeks later!) , now they are waiting my comments. Just after some advice on what to write to strengthen my appeal.
Quick bullet points below:
- Got to car park and took ticket from machine
- Drove round car park several times (7-10 mins or so), to find no spaces available - surely the machine should not distribute tickets if the car park is full, or there should be a sign saying FULL.
- Had a train to catch to London fo ran important meeting
- after drving round and finding no spaces apart from a huge one with white lines in it, with no visible signs stating no paring at anytime. (photos to prove)
- made the decision to park there, as I had seem other motorists parked on these white lined spaces that day due to full car park. Had to do something or I would have missed my train.
- I was not blocking anyone from entry/exit to anywhere.
- I was not blocking any vehicles in
- The space was plenty big enough for my car. (photos to prove)

NCP have come back to POPLA saying I should have read the sign at the ticket machine upon entry - I was already running late, and who has time to read these signs.
NCP have come back to POPLA saying I should have read the sign at the pay machine - you only pay for your ticket upon returning to the train station - so I would never have read this until later that evening.

So frustrating that I was given access to a car park that was full, and now I am being penalised.

Grateful for any help and advice for my comments I can add to my response to POPLA

Thanks

pogofish

Little of this matters to POPLA - get to the Newbies Sticky to see what does.

Coupon-mad

Have you shot several toes off by saying who was driving? Oooops...

macleaver

possibly, not actually said my name as the driver!

macleaver

thanks Pogofish, any links to the area on the newbies would be a great help and much appreciated

Coupon-mad

Easier to search 'POPLA comments' and read the discussions on other threads this past week, giving people tips on what to look for and concentrate on - the comments must be BRIEF. Do not repeat your appeal. Do not bark up the wrong tree.

Saves us repeating ourselves with the same advice, and better use of the forum for you, in finding things by a single search.

Always do an 'advanced' search and ALWAYS change to 'show posts' (never 'threads' = horrible view!).

When you appealed online you probably chose 'driver' in the drop-down menu? ...the 100% winning appeal point (no keeper liability) disappeared, if so.

Umkomaas

macleaver wrote: »

possibly, not actually said my name as the driver!

'I' normally does the job!

macleaver

so far I have these comments to add to my POPLA appeal. grateful for any help/advice and comments

NCP have provided no evidence of landowner authority for parking enforcement in the Car Park at Wigan North Western Train Station Car Park, Wigan. Instead they have supplied a copy of their terms and conditions for parking enforcement which is unreadable from within a vehicle when entering the car park.
NCP have provided a picture to prove this fact above. On the photo evidence given by NCP, with a circle drawn around the entrance barrier and the carpark T&C!!!8217;s !!!8211; you will see how far this is away from the entrance, and even the drivers with the best vision in the world would not be able to read this from that distance. You would need to get out of your vehicle and actually go up to the sign to read this.
NCP state - !!!8220;We appreciate the motorist!!!8217;s comments; however, they have not parked within a marked bay as per the car parks displayed Terms and Conditions!!!8221; !!!8211; Car Park was full. There were no free marked bays for the vehicle to park in, otherwise it would have gone in one.
NCP state - !!!8220;the motorist parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit accordingly!!!8221; !!!8211; The vehicle was not parked in any access road. The vehicle was not blocking any right of way for other vehicles or pedestrians. The vehicle was not blocking any exit entry.
!!!8220;Were all of our customers to share this sentiment, and park their cars wherever they deemed appropriate, then this would pose a significant risk to pedestrians, drivers and their vehicles.!!!8221; !!!8211; On that day other vehicles had to park in similar areas, CCTV footage will show this. The Vehicle was not posing any significant risk to pedestrians, drivers or other vehicles. Photos and CCTV footage will show this.
On the photo evidence given by NCP, with an arrow pointing to !!!8220;Please Park in mark bays. Vehicles causing an obstruction may be removed!!!8221; !!!8211; The vehicle was not causing any obstruction, BUT according to NCP!!!8217;s statement !!!8220;the motorist parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit accordingly!!!8221; !!!8211; therefore, should the vehicle have been removed/towed away if this was the case?
On the photo evidence given by NCP, with an arrow pointing to !!!8220;Terms and conditions of Parking!!!8221; !!!8211; this is unviewable from within a vehicle collecting a ticket from the entrance barrier. Also, if every vehicle was to stop and read this each time the entered the carpark, you would have a huge tail back getting into the carpark.
T&C Point 5. Parking Contraventions - 5.1a !!!8220;You comply with all signs in the Car Park!!!8221; !!!8211; But there were no signs at, around or near the area where the vehicle was parked. 5.1b !!!8220;you park within the limits of a marked bay!!!8221; !!!8211; No bays available for vehicle. Entry ticket machine should have displayed a Car Park Full sign. Entry ticket machine should not release tickets if car park is full.
I require NCP to provide the following information/documents, for this alleged parking event.
1. Any photographic or other evidence they have of the vehicle being !!!8220;parked in the access road for vehicles to drive around the car park or exit!!!8221;
2. A copy of the contract between NCP and the landowner under which they claim authority to bring the claim and authority to issue parking charges on the date in question.
3. A plan of the land in question showing where any signs were displayed.
4. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

macleaver

ignore the !!!8221 and !!!8211 numbers word has carried over during the copy and paste process!

KeithP

macleaver wrote: »

ignore the !!!8221 and !!!8211 numbers word has carried over during the copy and paste process!

Well edit them out then. Not difficult.

macleaver

Help with POPLA operator evidence comments - I have received an unsuccessful decision from POPLA, however, reading their comments I am now confused, as they finish by saying they must allow this appeal, see below. Anyone have any advice on how to proceed with this one?? Thanks

While I note that the appellant has raised a number of grounds of appeal, my report will focus solely on signage as this supersedes other aspects of the appeal. I refer to Section 18.1 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice, which outlines to operators: !!!8220;The driver!!!8217;s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver must be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are!!!8221;. Further, Section 18.3 states: !!!8220;You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle!!!8230; signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand!!!8221;. In response to this appeal, the operator has provided several photographs of the signage at the site. While I am satisfied that the operator has provided sufficient evidence of the terms and conditions, I am not satisfied that the operator has demonstrated the location and the distribution of the signs. As such, I am unable to determine whether the appellant was presented with a reasonable opportunity to review and comply with them. Therefore, I cannot conclude that the PCN was issued correctly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.