Need advice on sensitive (but urgent) issue

bugslet

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

bugslet wrote: »

Neither of those.

I've had to do this. We double man our vehicles and we had a driver whose personal hygiene was not great and other drivers were unhappy.

Ultimately it's for your manager to deal with and like anything once you grasp the nettle, it's not as bad as you imagine, particularly if it's handled sensitively.

Havin had exactly that conversation, I could do it again and if your manager is not stepping up as they should do, I'd say something. Take them out of earshot of everyone else and just say something along the lines of, 'there's been quite a few comments about your personal hygiene, maybe you aren't aware that your breath/sweating is very noticeable. Sorry, don't want to embarrass you'.

And yes, there are illnesses that can cause some smells and the person involved may not be aware.

Someone's gotta (wo)man up and say it![/QUOTE]


I think that is really good advice, normally. The problem in the example I related is that he knew his personal hygiene/clothing was a problem but he was simply incapable of acting on this knowledge until he was suspended. As I said, I was subsequently told that he was a widower and I think he'd just given up - although he was more than competent at his job. He was also a heavy smoker and heavy drinker, which I suspect contributed to his death at an early age. Very sad story.

Every circumstance is different. And obviously your example you know best for that particular circumstance.

TBagpuss

It is a very awkward situation.
Do you have a grievance procedure at work? If so, I think the time may have come to use it. It would probably work best if you do so either as a group, or if several of you separately raise the same issue.

Specifically state that it is so bad that it is causing you to feel ill and impacting on your ability to work effectively.

You can if you wish mention that you understand that he was spoken with once and that he said it was his shoes, but that the problem is not with his shoes and has not got any better.

In the mean time, try putting a bit of vicks vapour run on your upper lip under your nose - it can help drown out other smells.

I agree that if there is any one who gets on with him, that person could take him aside and raise the issue. If so, suggest that they are specific, e.g. to say to him that he needs to shower, use deodorant and wear clean clothes every day.

I have had to have this conversation once and I was incredibly awkward, and as the person initially said they were doing all those things I did have to go on to say that unfortunately they weren't doing enough, and that if they were already washing every day and wearing clean clothes they perhaps needed to consider whether they were using too low a setting on their washing machine so clothes were no getting clean, whether they needed to change deodorant to find one more effective for them etc. (I am pretty sure they were not, in fact, doing the other things, but the message I had to give was'unfortunately you smell, you need to address this" so part of it was listening to the response they gave but making clear that they were not doing enough, and had not solved the prooblem.

In my case, it wasn't a co-worker but was someone I was working with, and I was having the conversation because they needed to address the issue (among other things) in order to get to the outcome they wanted, and as y job was to try to help them achieve that outcome, it was a legitimate issue for me to address, but it was still very difficult to do.

More recently as an employer we had to deal with someone who had a similar issue, but in their case it was complicated by the fact that there was an underlying medical cause, so we have to adopt a dual approach with making the person aware that they absolutely had to wear clean clothes every day and to bring a change of clothes in hot weather, and also put them in a separate room as it was not reasonable to expect anyone to share a room with them and their smell.

Things did improve a bit and the combination of better hygiene and changes to the room allocation meant we ended up with a workable solution. However if it had not been for the medical issue it might well have ended up as a disciplinary, and at one stage they were given a verbal warning because they were not changing clothes daily.

shortcrust

People react differently but I'd much rather someone had a conversation with me rather than leaving deodorant on my desk. I think that's actually a pretty mean thing to do.

WibblyGirly

Get a plague mask, fill the nose with herbs, dried flowers etc. Jobs a good 'un.

lisa110rry

I once had a slightly similar situation with a man considerably further up the employment ladder than me. I took him aside and, as a woman some 20 years his senior, told him that it had been mentioned to me that in stressful meetings, his body odour increased considerably and very unpleasantly. I suggested he do what "all women" did, and keep deodorant in his desk and use it frequently and before all meetings. In my case, I was lucky, the man thanked me profusely for bringing this to his attention and told me that he had literally no sense of smell. The problem, if not completely solved, was much, much improved. I felt that as a woman in an almost all-male environment, it was kinder for me to "give the talk". Do you have any older female colleagues who could do this, sensitively?

z1a

gardner1 wrote: »

Just tell him to his face........you stink get a wash.use deodorant and clean clothes.......never mind all the hurt his feelings and the wishy washy approach
If that's to harsh leave a bag with soap and deorderant on his desk

This is what would happen at my place.

lloydy84

Thanks alot for the replies!

First I have to say, I would have no issue at all taking him to one side and speaking to him about this. I would happily do it. This is not about myself & my colleagues being afraid to approach it.

However, it was our manager that warned us from doing it, stating that proper procedures needed to be followed and by not following the procedures (going through the chain of command), it may result in disciplinary action.

Today I spoke with my manager again, to which he said he wouldn't recommend a disciplinary if I approached the matter personally, but the GM may, and he could not speak for her, therefore I did not risk it, but something has to give. He stated that the GM wants him to stay, and can not smell him..

Today the female co worker that was off yesterday returned, was working beside him and opened the main double doors up, even in the snow and -2 degrees!

The person in question closed the door saying it was too cold, and she replied 'Sorry but the smell in here is too much it is making me sick'. He then agreed that the building 'smelt like a skip', but said it was a bin in the corner (with only paper inside). He emptied it, returned, and the female member of staff said 'Sorry, it is not the bin, the smell is coming from you', which he responded that it was not him, it was the bin or his hat..

She re-iterated to him that the smell was in fact coming from him, which once again he stated that she was mistaken, 'it was something else'.

As far as I can see there are now two options:

1 - Approach him myself, speak to him and hope that this works but risk disciplinary action if he reports this to my GM (she is very fond of giving these out, two already this week)

2 - We do have a grievance procedure at work. But who would the grievance be against? The member of staff or management for failing to do anything about it?

Thank you.

Manxman_in_exile

lisa110rry wrote: »

I once had a slightly similar situation with a man considerably further up the employment ladder than me. I took him aside and, as a woman some 20 years his senior, told him that it had been mentioned to me that in stressful meetings, his body odour increased considerably and very unpleasantly. I suggested he do what "all women" did, and keep deodorant in his desk and use it frequently and before all meetings. In my case, I was lucky, the man thanked me profusely for bringing this to his attention and told me that he had literally no sense of smell. The problem, if not completely solved, was much, much improved. I felt that as a woman in an almost all-male environment, it was kinder for me to "give the talk". Do you have any older female colleagues who could do this, sensitively?

That sounds like reasonable advice in a reasonable workplace with reasonable management. I'm not sure that's were the OP is.


(PS - love the signature. Wasn't Julian of Norwich an amazing woman!)

Gavin83

lloydy84 wrote: »

As far as I can see there are now two options:

You could all just go off sick. Sure they’ll get the message when none of their employees, except smelly guy turn up.

TBagpuss

lloydy84 wrote: »

Thanks alot for the replies!


2 - We do have a grievance procedure at work. But who would the grievance be against? The member of staff or management for failing to do anything about it?

Thank you.

I'm not sure if your grievance has to be 'against' a specific person - it could be more along the lines that it is not acceptable to force you and your colleague to work in an atmosphere where the smell of BO is so bad that it makes you nauseous and that you are requesting that steps are taken to resolve the issue, whether by dealing with the underlying issue by addressing it with the individual worker concerned, or by moving him to a separate room, or taking other steps to address the problem.

That way you are putting the problem firmly back in the hands of management.

(if GM can't smell him maybe suggest that he is moved into GMs office!)