Freehold and leasehold problem, old owner

schuey87

We bought our house 4 years ago and recently sold. When going through solicitors it has come to light that the property has a freehold title and a leasehold title. The freehold title is in our name but the leasehold title is in the name of the owners previous to the ones we bought off. The solicitor tells us this is because there was a mistake at the land registry and that it didn’t show up on the searches when we bought the house as the leasehold title wasn’t linked to the freehold title, which they say it should have been. It was obviously missed by the solicitors on the previous transfer too as the leaseholder is iant even registered to the people we bought the house off. They say that because of some changes in processes it has come to light this time and is now going to delay things.

Has anyone ever experienced this? What happened? I am annoyed that it seems like our solicitor didn’t do their job properly when we bought the house, if it causes a problem with our sale/purchase now could we complain about this do you think?

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Your freehold title should contain a section headed “Schedule of Notices of leases” and list any subleases the freehold is subject to.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If that was the case 4 years ago when you bought the house your solicitor has made a serious error even if the leasehold title itself was not listed at the land registry against your address at that time.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I don't know whether an enquiry to the land registry would reveal whether the lease was listed at your address 4 years ago and if it was not, why and why has it now suddenly been listed.[/FONT]

davidmcn

schuey87 wrote: »

it seems like our solicitor didn’t do their job properly when we bought the house, if it causes a problem with our sale/purchase now could we complain about this do you think?

If it's

because of some changes in processes it has come to light this time

that suggests your previous solicitor (or is it the same one?) wouldn't have reasonably been able to spot it? But it's not clear to me what those changes are, maybe somebody more familiar with the Land Registry will be along soon...

schuey87

I have seen the copy of the leasehold title on the land registry document which was created in 2001... in the names of the people who owned the house before the people we bought off so it must have been listed in some way at the land registry to this addresss.

The solicitor our buyer is using is the solicitor we used when we bought the house, we are using a different office of the same firm now.

Tom99

Is the lease listed on your freehold title?

schuey87

Tom99 wrote: »

Is the lease listed on your freehold title?

No, no mention of a lease on our title or the copy of the old title registered to the owners we bought off that I still have a copy of in the solicitors paperwork from before. All just mention freehold, title absolute.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What does your current solicitor say is the correct way to rectify this?

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You can try messaging the Land Reg to ask them to confirm that the lease would not have come up under a search 4 years ago – they may of course not be able to answer that.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://help.landregistry.gov.uk/app/contactus_general/?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=govuk&utm_campaign=death_contact_page_to_contact_form&utm_content=web_page[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The fact two different solicitors have missed out this lease does point to it being 'hidden' in the past.[/FONT]

schuey87

Apparently the reason it was found this time is because of a new online land registry search that solicitors just search the address and it shows all titles registered to the house.

The leasehold is a “good title” and he freehold is absolute. Land registry said it isn’t attached to the freehold title because it is only good. Solicitor said if they had an absolute freehold title with no mention of any attached titles before his online search that listed all the titles they would never have checked if there were any other titles that should be attached.

Solicitor says that have to track down the people listed on the leasehold title by going back through various solicitors records, initially our sellers, to find out who acted for their sellers back in 2013 who should be the people listed on the leasehold title. Then thy can get them to sign the leasehold over.

It’s startung to sound like a lot more work than I thought!

Does anyone know should solicitors always check there is only a single title? I would have thought this is something basic we pay them for? They claim that it would be “up to the seller to tell them about any other titles before this online search facility” which seems way too trusting, if it was up to the seller to tell me and a solicitor isn’t being paid to check these things why bother with a solicitor!!

Tom99

schuey87 wrote: »

Apparently the reason it was found this time is because of a new online land registry search that solicitors just search the address and it shows all titles registered to the house.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]As far as I am aware you have been able to enter an address and see what titles come up for that address in the past. Certainly for a flat I bought 8 years ago I was able to see the freehold and the three leasehold titles.[/FONT]

schuey87

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]As far as I am aware you have been able to enter an address and see what titles come up for that address in the past. Certainly for a flat I bought 8 years ago I was able to see the freehold and the three leasehold titles.[/FONT]

That’s interesting, because that would definitely seem to suggest our solicitor 4 years ago did not do a very good job to miss this.

Tom99

schuey87 wrote: »

Thats interesting, because that would definitely seem to suggest our solicitor 4 years ago did not do a very good job to miss this.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I would suggest you message the Land Reg land ask them about this supposed new search system whereby solicitors can suddenly now see all the titles listed on an address.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Once you have found the leasehold title owners I hope its as simple as getting them to 'sign the leasehold over'

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I had a similar situation last year, the land was worth nothing to this old owner, like you it was meant to have been included in a previous sale and morally should have been handed back for free. However they realised its value to someone else who could not sell without it and extracted a bribe of several thousand pounds for their signature.[/FONT]