Second hand car problems - my rights

Damo1978

Hi All,

I bought a second hand car 3 weeks ago for £1,450, and have had a few issues since then, culminating tonight in having to call out the AA due to what turns out to be a faulty alternator.

I had got it booked in with the dealer this Thursday to have the Auxiliary Tensioner looked at as the engine is making a horrendous loud vibrating/rumbling noise. This was only when cold until the last few days, and would then quieten down once I'd been driving it for a 10-15 minutes, however the last few days it's been constant. The tensioner was replaced before I bought the car by the dealer, but he was going to take another look.

A couple of days ago another issue came up, namely the exhaust back box falling off. Seems it was rotted, and probably one of the many potholes has caused it to finally break. Living 50 miles away from the dealer I didn't want to be driving that distance without a back box - I called the dealer and they said they wouldn't pay the full amount as they could get it cheaper, but they'd reimburse me what it would usually cost them. I accepted this (though wasn't particularly happy), though I'd want at least £50 towards the £90 it cost me.

Then tonight I ended up having to turn back to home after a mile of a journey because the car was losing power and the headlights were constantly flashing. I called the AA once I was home (as I have home start), their guy came out and said there is a problem with the alternator and it needs replacing. This is actually what is causing the loud noise mentioned above, rather than the auxiliary tensioner - because the engine is losing power it keeps pulling on the crank pulley which is in turn making the noise.

The problem I have is the dealer is closed tomorrow. I need the car to get to work, and don't want to be driving 50 miles to take it back to him whilst it's jumping all over the place and losing power constantly. I'm not sure it would do the distance anyway.

Am I within my rights to take it somewhere tomorrow to have it fixed, and claim the full amount back from the dealer. Should I be claiming the full amount of the exhaust back too? I know he'll say he could get it cheaper, but then he'd have to get a van to come out and pick my car up and get it back to them, and then I assume return it to me.

To be fair he was being quite good about having it looked at, and had offered me a replacement car in the meantime, so he might not have an issue, but based on him saying he wouldn't pay the full amount of the exhaust I expect I'll also have issues over the alternator.

parking_question_chap

Cant really expect to win a claim against a rotten exhaust on a £1450 car.

Its expected wear and tear for a presumably old car, and you could have got under the car and checked it before buying.

Damo1978

parking_question_chap wrote: »

Cant really expect to win a claim against a rotten exhaust on a £1450 car.

Its expected wear and tear for a presumably old car, and you could have got under the car and checked it before buying.

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah I did think that, but then thought as it's only 3 weeks maybe it should be covered.

What about the alternator? I'm more bothered about this as it could cost in excess of £200 for fitting. It should be covered by the warranty (which specifies "engine"), but can I claim the full cost if I get it fixed somewhere near me, as I can't drive it back to them due to distance and the fault it has? The AA report specifies to only drive it a short distance to a garage.

societys_child

can I claim the full cost if I get it fixed somewhere near me

Only with the prior agreement of the dealer.

macman

Context: make, model, year and mileage.?
No, the alternator is not part of the engine. Any warranty you get on a £1.5K car is going to be near worthless anyway. The warranty is return to base, it was your choice to drive 50 miles to purchase it.
How was the vehicle condition described, when was it last MOT'd?

Damo1978

Thanks.

It's a 2004 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI, 103,000 miles on the clock .

It was last MoT'd in November.

I can't remember how it was advertised to be honest, sure it said something like "excellent condition for year", but not entirely sure.

I'm going to give him a call in the morning. I've had a quote from Kwikfit (though I don't like using them) for £257, and am awaiting a call back from Formula One. I did report the issue of the noise (which turns out is caused by the alternator problem) last weekend (2 weeks after purchase) when I was actually over there, but he asked me to take it to him this week as his workshop was booked solid and he had people off, so it will be 4 weeks before he gets it - however I'll be discussing any claims under warranty / statutory rights on the basis of it being reported after 2 weeks.

I do see what you're saying about the price of the car, but it is the going price for a good condition one of this age, so I shouldn't in my mind be expected to have to pay out £350 on an exhaust and alternator so soon after buying it.

Aylesbury_Duck

Damo1978 wrote: »

I do see what you're saying about the price of the car, but it is the going price for a good condition one of this age, so I shouldn't in my mind be expected to have to pay out £350 on an exhaust and alternator so soon after buying it.

I think you have been unlucky having problems so soon but with a car of that age and mileage, neither of those problems are surprising and are to be expected sooner or later. Can you prove they were present when you bought the car? Did you check the car when you bought it?

You seem to have a good dealer who is doing his best to resolve the problems. It was your decision to buy a car 50 miles away and you should have factored that in to your choice when you made it, such is the increased likelihood of problems occurring with an older car. I am sure a comparable car could have been found more locally. You owe the dealer the chance to put things right and although his distance from you is a pain, it is an inconvenience of your making.

Damo1978

My parents actually helped me pay for the car, they live near the dealer hence getting it there. I'm not saying that's his problem clearly, just the reason I bought it there rather than more local, my parents wanted me to look at a different car but ended up getting this one.

I did check the car but admittedly not as closely as I usually would. The car actually looked spotless and well looked after, I took it for a test drive but couldn't go too far unfortunately. All did seem ok, but this issue has been getting progressively worse for the last few weeks. At first I thought the noise (which I noticed a couple of days after buying it) was just normal diesel noise when cold (Mondeo diesels are known for being noisy), but as it got worse and more persistent I had it looked at by a friend then took it back to him (when he asked me to go back in a couple of weeks). This would suggest it was faulty when purchased because the noise was noticeable very early on, at that point only from outside the car when the engine was cold (but now constant). From my understanding (though might be incorrect based on age/mileage as it's not totally clear), the consumer rights act says that on second hand cars in the first 6 months it's the sellers responsibility to prove the problem wasn't there when it was sold.

As I say, I am going to give him a chance to sort it, and he might be fine about it, he has been good up to now. I've been careful not to give away any details of who the dealer is partly for that reason I just wanted to have a good idea of my rights beforehand in case I do have issues.

From advice in here it would appear I don't really have many rights with this, but as it is so soon after purchasing it, and as it was him who asked me to take it back a couple of weeks after I reported it (by which time it's become almost undrivable, certainly long distance) that he'll cover a good amount of the repair bill if not all of it.

Thanks again.

AdrianC

You have a statutory right to reject the car within 30 days. Unless the retailer is happy to just accept that, then you will need to put the car beyond your use - return it physically - and then take them to court for the money.

Your statutory rights mean that any fault within the first six months is assumed to be present at the time of sale, unless the retailer can show otherwise. After six months, that burden of proof reverses.

BUT... your rights are tempered by reasonable expectations for a used car of that price, quality and apparent condition. It's a grand-and-a-half of decade-and-a-half car. The simple rule of thumb for used goods is to ignore the purchase - would it be reasonable for that failure to occur if you'd had the goods from new? Is it reasonable for an exhaust (that was just demonstrably just fine three months ago, according to Mr MOT) and an alternator to fail? They were clearly not already faulty at the point of purchase, because you've been driving around for three weeks, and now you say you can't drive the car.

Oh, and you chose to buy from a dealer 50 miles away, so it's your responsibility to return it to their premises.

arcon5

Wow £1500 for a mk3 Mondeo!!
I've just paid fifty quid more than that for a 2008 (mk4) 2l tdci with 96k and fsh.

Good thing about those though are they are so easy to work on as everything is so easily accessible. Even with the alternator being at the rear it's still so accessible it's unreal.

The tensioner are actually really common problems on the mk3. Tensioner and alternator could be done in an hour and a half.
A banger Mondeo if the dealer refuses to pay it would be just as easy to pickup an alternator for about twenty quid from breakers then having a back street garage fit it.

jimjames

Alternator went on my car few weeks back, VW now Ford but even brand new was only £75 so it's not an expensive part