Questions about Distribution

Yorkshireman99

Nobody but the court can tell to alter the distribution as per the will. A DOV is done by the beneficiaries AFTER they have been paid. You should go ahead and ignore their their requests. Their solicitor should be told very firmly to stop mid-advising his clients.

dresdendave

I can understand your desire to be cautious based on the apparent awkwardness of the beneficiaries. If they are adamant they want the money paid via bank transfer to their solicitor's client account perhaps you could do it in the following way to cover yourself.

(Example is hypothetical.)

Rather than sending a lump sum of £100,000, break it down into the individual bequests and use the beneficiaries name as the transfer reference.

i.e. Transfer 1 £50,000 Ref Fred Smith
Transfer 2 £25,000 Ref Bert Smith
Transfer 3 £25,000 Ref Sally Smith

If the clients ask the solicitors to allocate the sums differently then no blame can be attached to you at a later date if one of the feels they have been short changed.

I've no experience of the legalities of the process, just trying to come up with a common sense approach.

Yorkshireman99

dresdendave wrote: »

I can understand your desire to be cautious based on the apparent awkwardness of the beneficiaries. If they are adamant they want the money paid via bank transfer to their solicitor's client account perhaps you could do it in the following way to cover yourself.

(Example is hypothetical.)

Rather than sending a lump sum of £100,000, break it down into the individual bequests and use the beneficiaries name as the transfer reference.

i.e. Transfer 1 £50,000 Ref Fred Smith
Transfer 2 £25,000 Ref Bert Smith
Transfer 3 £25,000 Ref Sally Smith

If the clients ask the solicitors to allocate the sums differently then no blame can be attached to you at a later date if one of the feels they have been short changed.

I've no experience of the legalities of the process, just trying to come up with a common sense approach.

An excellent solution but ask for written, not email, confirmation from each of them first.

Tom99

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Nobody but the court can tell to alter the distribution as per the will. A DOV is done by the beneficiaries AFTER they have been paid. You should go ahead and ignore their their requests. Their solicitor should be told very firmly to stop mid-advising his clients.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]A deed of variation can be signed by a beneficiary at any time after death. It can be before or after the estate has been distributed.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The executor, thought not legally necessary, may be asked to be a party to the DOV because they then give an undertaking to distribute the estate in accordance with the DOV.[/FONT]

Yorkshireman99

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]A deed of variation can be signed by a beneficiary at any time after death. It can be before or after the estate has been distributed.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The executor, thought not legally necessary, may be asked to be a party to the DOV because they then give an undertaking to distribute the estate in accordance with the DOV.[/FONT]

In theory yes but in the OP's case clearly impossible. It is not, AFAIK, normal to involve the executor. The executor is not under any obligation toget involved with the DOV.

Linton

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

In theory yes but in the OP's case clearly impossible. It is not, AFAIK, normal to involve the executor. The executor is not under any obligation toget involved with the DOV.

AIUI someone organises a DOV, it doesnt matter who, as long as it is agreed by the adversely affected beneficiaries, Then the estate should be distributed in accordance with the DOV as if that was what the will said.

The only time I have met one was when it was advantageous for the will to be changed for tax reasons. In that case the DOV was written by the solicitor acting on behalf of the executors and agreed by the beneficiaries.

Tom99

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

In theory yes but in the OP's case clearly impossible. It is not, AFAIK, normal to involve the executor. The executor is not under any obligation toget involved with the DOV.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Not impossible, the solicitor has said the beneficiaries have decided amongst themselves to change the ratio of their bequests. Exactly the sort of thing DOV are for, although their two years may be up if not already done.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You would expect the solicitor to add that this had been done by a DOV if the solicitor was aware of that and send the OP a copy.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I would expect the OP to distribute in accordance with the will unless a valid DOV has been supplied to them.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I have been involved in three DOV all prepared by different solicitors and in each case the executor or administrator has been a party to the deed as well as the beneficiary concerned, its makes sure the executor know what is going on and the executor gives an undertaking to administer the estate in accordance with the DOV, it ties up the loose ends.[/FONT]

lukewarn

Many thanks Tom and Yorkshireman for your very useful comments.

The two years since death has not yet expired.I have been sent some sort of agreement signed by each beneficiary asking me to pay their bequests in a way that is different to that of the will.

But, in view of the despicable way I have been treated by them over quite a period I am loathe to agree to anything they have requested. It is clearly a case of the 'last word' syndrome and as far as I am aware they can get stuffed.

(None of them ever did anything,or shown any interest,in the deceased but as soon as death occurred they suddenly shown a lot of interest in the deceased's estate.This has cost them quite a considerable amount in legal costs which I am quite pleased about.)

To date, I have acted totally alone and was a litigant in person in both court cases and have come out of it all very well - both cases applications dismissed with no order for costs. The judge even asked me did I want to recover any of MY costs from the applicants.

My real issue is this- If I totally ignore their DOV request and just pay them exactly in the ratio of the original will, will there be any legal comeback to me personally as executor ?

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Beneficiaries normally sign a deed of variation for tax purposes as it has the same effect as if the original will was changed. But this backdating from the date the deed is signed to the date of death is only in respect of IHT and CGT and only then if the correct tax clause has been inserted.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In all other respects the deed is valid from the date it is signed, this includes income tax and deprivation of assets.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If an executor is provided with a valid DOV you would expect them to distribute the estate in accordance with that DOV but I don't know whether that is a legal obligation.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You can check whether the 'sort of agreement' signed by the beneficiaries is valid for tax purposes buy using the checklist here:

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/inheritance-tax-instrument-of-variation-checklist-iov2[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]To be valid for tax purposes it does not actually need to be a deed, i.e. witnessed, you will see the checklist is headed instrument of variation.[/FONT]

Yorkshireman99

lukewarn wrote: »

Many thanks Tom and Yorkshireman for your very useful comments.

The two years since death has not yet expired.I have been sent some sort of agreement signed by each beneficiary asking me to pay their bequests in a way that is different to that of the will.

But, in view of the despicable way I have been treated by them over quite a period I am loathe to agree to anything they have requested. It is clearly a case of the 'last word' syndrome and as far as I am aware they can get stuffed.

(None of them ever did anything,or shown any interest,in the deceased but as soon as death occurred they suddenly shown a lot of interest in the deceased's estate.This has cost them quite a considerable amount in legal costs which I am quite pleased about.)

To date, I have acted totally alone and was a litigant in person in both court cases and have come out of it all very well - both cases applications dismissed with no order for costs. The judge even asked me did I want to recover any of MY costs from the applicants.

My real issue is this- If I totally ignore their DOV request and just pay them exactly in the ratio of the original will, will there be any legal comeback to me personally as executor ?

I don.t see how there can be. Your position as executor REQUIRES you to distribute the estate exactly as per the will. You are entitled to a valid receipt for each payment. The beneficiaries refusal to do so is frankly absurd and if they were stupid enoough to take you to court again they would get very short shrift from the judge. Judges do not like time wasters. By insisting on a valid receipt you are only protecting yourself. In the circumstances paying via a third party is quite reasonable and the solicitor will know this very well. The bottom line is no receipt no payment. Console yourself by knowing they are still racking up their costs.