Complicated dispute story, any ideas?

N71

jpmummy wrote: »

"If a man doesn't want a baby then there is no reason for him not to put a condom on the end of it....even if the woman says that she is on the Pill or whatever. Contraceptives aren't 100% effective and unfortunately there are women out there who will lie"

Too true and make the bloke pay for the next 19 years! My OH has been a cash cow for a woman who's only ambition at 18 was to get a council house she assured OH (who was 20)that she was on the pill and then confessed all when she got pregnant - they discussed termination, he paid, she took the money and bought herself some new shoes outfit and coat. Classic, we are still paying now and she's bought the council house she got and has made a packet yet she has ruined my OH over the years.

Unfortunate situation for your OH - but may that be a lesson to all young men!

Mums with teenage sons - print this out, blow it up, and pin it to your sons bedroom walls.

littlebearbeer

Hi,

Thanks for your help, i found this on the children rights council for Canada:

Pro-Choice for men

What is pro-choice for men in Canada?
Pro-choice for men in Canada is similar in many ways to pro-choice for women. It is the "next best equal legal position available" to men in the case of a woman becoming pregnant. At or before birth, as may be practical under law, a man would make a legal declaration in response of his choice to become a parent to a specific pregnant woman after mandatory government paid paternity testing. This declaration of his choice to become parent or not become a parent would be legally binding.
The man's declaration would be a response to a woman's legal declaration stating that she is pregnant and that she believe that man to be the potential father served on him.
The man could then make the choice of becoming or not becoming a parent to that child and if he chooses to become a parent would be entitled to a relationship with that child and provide or receive financial support for the child, as the case may be, as determined by the provincial, territorial and federal acts concerning family law, custody and child financial support.
The Canadian Children's Rights Council advocates for legally binding declarations of the choice of both potential parents to become parents when a woman becoming pregnant.




I am not sure whether this would help my case or not?! I have emailed canadian children rights council to see if they could explain this further. As far as i can see, however, it states that the father can not become the father and therefore not financially support the child....


What do you think?

Loopy_Girl

I think it's disgusting quite frankly. You have unprotected sex (male or female) then you should have to deal with the consequences.

Children aren't puppies that can be chosen when to have attention and when not.

For anyone that doesn't want children or have to sign bits of paper signing away your responsibilites to your children (hell mend you if they ever find out who you are though - how are you going to explain that one?) then put something in the end of it

You willingly had unprotected sex with a woman and procreated and now you want to use this 'get out of jail' card? So she is left with the awkward questions and financial responsibility?

You are a poor excuse for a man and I have never heard anything so selfish in my entire life - and that includes my errant ex.

littlebearbeer

Okay, i understand that this is a difficult topic. But i am not looking for peoples opinions on the topic but actually an understanding of the law behind it all. I am finding it difficult to understand blocks of text from various law sites which is why i am asking for other peoples interpretations.

Opinions can become offensive and i do not wish for this at all!

Loopy_Girl

Then I suggest you consult a lawyer.

From what I can read the parentage issue has to be resolved just before or at birth and you haven't told us what age YOUR daughter is.

Certainly in the UK, once parentage has been established then that is it. I, and I don't think anyone else here, knows about Canadian law. Whether it would be UK or Canadian law I don't know. Probably Canadian since your ex stays there.

Again, consult a lawyer and please use condoms since you seem far too immature to deal with responsibility.

And if you want to talk about offensive then I find your whole subject matter offensive. This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinion. If you don't like it then you can pay for legal advice where you won't be judged.

LittleNoddy

Interesting Comments everyone really...

I have been through this HELL, so much that I very nearly decided to give up on everything that life offered. That's how damaging this is... I don't believe it's just to do with a condom or not why here's why...

If the female failed or lied to have protected her self she still has many options open to her even after the accident. I male on the other hand only has two options though a condom will help, if it breaks the out come is still the same the female can and will still have the child. So really the male only has one option to be 110% don't bother. It's all based on choice, and if the females decides hats she wants goes. How would females feel if it was if you fell pregant you HAD TO HAVE THE CHILD, & STAY WITH THAT MALE. There are to many options open to the females to change and distory a male's life.

I have no or little faith in women at all now based on one womens lies that's also cheated the goverment out of thousands, but that's ok.

So my question is now to all of you women that think it's ok, if I am alone to the day I die, why should I remain to be a tax payer for everyone else not really a live is it now.

May be some of you should read the stats or comdoms against the pill based on fact!

Out of a 100 women 20 would get pregnant with a condom on!

Out of a 100 women 0 would get pregnant with the pill if taken at the exact time every day.

So my life has been distoryed, by 1 women's lie...Thanks

DUTR

Louise287 wrote: »

My husband had a brief 6 week fling, at the end of which, the woman announced she was 4 months pregnant. In 1995, it was put through a hearing and he was told there was nothing to worry about as dates didn't match at all. In 1999, the case went to court and hubby gave his DNA sample. The mother flattly refused to have her daughter tested so the case was thrown out.

In 2003, the case went back to court and the CSA started deducted money as an enforced attachment of earnings. When we questioned it, we were told that because he hadn't replied to their letters, they were allowed to assume paternity. Unfortunately he couldn't reply to the letters as he was unconcious in intensive care at the time, but this doesn't seem to matter!

We are still having to pay back dated support and arrears despite the case being thrown out and DNA test refusals etc, but can't get any sense out of CSA on how to challenge it. One person said we can't, another talked about going back to court and one said to write a complaint which got nowhere. The CSA say they have no record of court cases or DNA on record and the court don't have any record of the case being heard. Any ideas at all would be appreciated!!!!

Can you clarify, that the lady in question was already expecting when she met your husband or it was 4 months later that she discovered she was expecting

oldcarpetbagger

Vomityspice wrote: »

In Childcare Law cases there is a simple legal presumption and that is, if you refuse to comply with a request for a DNA sample then this will work against you. This is because a DNA test will conclusively prove paternity and the only real reason for refusal is to avoid certainty. There are grounds to refuse but the judge would need to be persuaded they were legitimate (highly unlikely to happen but it is a possibility!)

Therefore, in this case, although it is not clear what is meant by 'thrown out', all the potential father needs to do is formally dispute paternaty with the CSA and await the results (it will speed things up if your MP is involved).

If the mother refuses to agree (to DNA testing) then her claim will be dismissed and the maintenace assessment will fail. You can then ask for your money back with interest. I'm not sure why your CAB adviser was unable to tell you this!?!?

Alternatively, you can apply to your local court under Section 55A of the Family Law Act 1986 for a declaration of non-paternity (possibly using the presumption system).

Talk to a family Law solicitor who should be able to assist you.

If you need further details of the case law to back it up then just ask and i'll hunt it out.

Or to prevent the Father having PR and therefore no legal rights over the said child.

Who initiated the court case, CSA, Mother or Father?

DaisyChainMaker

oh my word what a mess. Maybe an email to your MP to ask for help in sorting this would help? x

AnxiousMum

littlebearbeer wrote: »

Hi,

I have a similar case that i am searching for extra information. But basically i would like to know all details associated with declaring non-parentage.

If a man is proven father of a child through a DNA test, can he declare non-parentage? (as he split up with the mother before pregnancy was known and did not want to have children with her anyway)

Does this entitle him to no legal/financial contract between the parties?

Unfortunately, the case i am researching for is between two countries as well. Father is UK based and Mother and daughter are Canadian based.

Please give me a straightforward scenario on how declaring non-parentage works and if you can, if this would stand up in a Canadian court?

Many thanks,

You might want to start your own thread, as then you will get the information from posters who might be able to help you, rather than taking over someone elses thread. As the titles refer to different problems, your issue may get totally overlooked.

However, on the Canadian front - was the baby born here in the UK or in Canada? Where is the child resident? Under Canadian law, the courts that have jurisdiction over the child are the courts where the child resides, UNLESS jurisdiction is accepted otherwise. IE, if the child lives here, and the parent in Canada starts proceedings in Canada, if the parent here then responds, they are seen to be accepting the jurisdiction of the Canadian courts.

If the child is resident in the UK, then the parent here would need to apply through the Magistrates court using the REMO process to get child support from the Canadian parent. The papers are filed here (cost when I did it was £180) and copies are sent to the Canadian parent. The Canadian parent can then respond, either disputing paternity, or providing all the information that is required. A provisional order is then made here, which could be asking for a paternity test, or if the other parent has agreed they are the parent, then a provisional order for child support is made. It is not yet enforceable. A court date is then set up in Canada, where the other parent has to attend. It is during this court procedure that the order made here is either rebuked by the Canadian court, or placed as an enforcable order. The enforceable order, if for child support (and they go strictly by the child support guidelines which are set out by the Justice Department), is then registered with the Maintenance Enforcement office in whichever Province the other parent resides. Once registered, which can take about three months or so, payments can either be made to them or to you direct. If the other parent falls into arrears, the FMEP will go for arrears, by stopping all Federal monies (GST rebates, Income Tax Returns, child tax credits etc.) to the non paying parent, they will put in for deductions at source with the employer, cancel drivers licences, cancel passports, recover vehicles, liens on houses, and finally jail. The Canadian courts do NOT mess around with non paying parents - they get the money. On the other hand, they will ensure that access is made possible as well - and failure to allow the child to see the other parent in accordance with a court order can actually end up in a charge of kidnapping if pursued, and the visitation is not put into place as per the court order.

The ONLY variations to the child support guidelines to be paid, are when there are things like high costs of access etc., and this is usually worked out by comparison of households tests. See the child support guidelines for the province the other parent lives in and look under 'undue hardship' clauses. There is a calculator there you can use to determine the standards of living comparison.

If the child was born in Canada, there was a form to be filled in along with the birth certificate which both parents had to sign if an unmarried couple wanted the father named on the birth certificate. There's lots more to this, but like I said, maybe start your own thread and you will get lots more help.