Is it a redundancy issue?

MeMi_2

I need your urgent advice. The particular shift I have been contracted to work on is being done away with or disestablished as it is called in NHS language because there is no longer a need for the service that the shift provides at this time.

We are currently in the consultation period and have told that jobs with the exact same job descriptions have been ring fenced on one of the other shifts and that we should put in our preference. The other shifts are not suitable for me due to substantially less pay and a health concern I have. I would prefer a redundancy at this point but the woman from HR said that as there is no loss of posts it is not a redundancy situation.

It seems then that I will basically have to take a position which is not suitable for me and I really have no choice. Is the HR woman right that due to there being no loss of post I will basically just have to take the new hours and nearly 50% less pay after the pay protection period ends?

Comms69

MeMi wrote: »

I need your urgent advice. The particular shift I have been contracted to work on is being done away with or disestablished as it is called in NHS language because there is no longer a need for the service that the shift provides at this time.

We are currently in the consultation period and have told that jobs with the exact same job descriptions have been ring fenced on one of the other shifts and that we should put in our preference. The other shifts are not suitable for me due to substantially less pay and a health concern I have. I would prefer a redundancy at this point but the woman from HR said that as there is no loss of posts it is not a redundancy situation.

It seems then that I will basically have to take a position which is not suitable for me and I really have no choice. Is the HR woman right that due to there being no loss of post I will basically just have to take the new hours and nearly 50% less pay after the pay protection period ends?

Possibly, need more info.


Why the pay difference? and in what way is it not suitable outside of that?

MeMi_2

The pay difference can be up to 40% depending on the new shift pattern they offer me. I find it otherwise unsuitable because I have anxiety/social anxiety and deliberately choose to work nights due to finding it easier to control the associated issues at nights.

MeMi_2

Anyone else able to help out?

Xbigman

Unless your problems are severe enough to count as a disability your employer won't be very interested.
You're best bet is to let them know your concerns and ask if there are any other nightshift roles available in different dept's.
If there aren't you are pretty much stuck with whats on offer or seeking a different job.



Darren

getmore4less

How long is the pay protection?

Is that absolute take home protection with current enhancements or just grade?

They could play this two ways.

just a change of hours for the people doing the jobs that would fall within normal contractual changes and they would not need to offer pay protection for the enhanced rates.

Your job is redundant and their is a suitable alternative.

The pay protection will make it much harder to say it is not a suitable alternative on any job based criteria(the only thing that is changing is the hours and that would probably be acceptable contractually anyway)

Personal grounds are harder anyway.

if they are treating this as a potential redundancy then you could ask for a trial period.

There is obviously the option to try and find other night shift work, NHS find them hard to fill so there may be opportunities if you make it known that's what you want. there may be dept. making do and would jump at the chance to get a full time nights person.

Another angle is to try and get help for your condition, this being essentially the same as what you currently do and probably the same people that's one part you should be comfortable with.

MeMi_2

getmore4less wrote: »

How long is the pay protection?

Is that absolute take home protection with current enhancements or just grade?

They could play this two ways.

just a change of hours for the people doing the jobs that would fall within normal contractual changes and they would not need to offer pay protection for the enhanced rates.

Your job is redundant and their is a suitable alternative.

The pay protection will make it much harder to say it is not a suitable alternative on any job based criteria(the only thing that is changing is the hours and that would probably be acceptable contractually anyway)

Personal grounds are harder anyway.

if they are treating this as a potential redundancy then you could ask for a trial period.

There is obviously the option to try and find other night shift work, NHS find them hard to fill so there may be opportunities if you make it known that's what you want. there may be dept. making do and would jump at the chance to get a full time nights person.

Another angle is to try and get help for your condition, this being essentially the same as what you currently do and probably the same people that's one part you should be comfortable with.

It is the take home pay with shift enhancement. I will be losing the shift enhancement if I go daytime. I took the job over ten years ago specifically because I wanted a night job which helps me manage my condition. My contract is for nights only. I thought it might be a redundancy issue because the out of hours service that they employed me for is being disestablished therefore I am not needed for that service anymore.

They have offered six months pay protection. The consultation period is due to end shortly. They have told me that as the job exists on another shift, there is no redundancy but I really do not want to work daytime because I struggle with daytime working and I would not have taken the job if it was daytime to start with.

There is not a lot of straight night time jobs in the NHS. Night shifts are actually rather popular.

MeMi_2

Xbigman wrote: »

Unless your problems are severe enough to count as a disability your employer won't be very interested.
You're best bet is to let them know your concerns and ask if there are any other nightshift roles available in different dept's.
If there aren't you are pretty much stuck with whats on offer or seeking a different job.

Darren

Well I will be seeing their doctor shortly. I do not know who or how they will decide if my problems are severe enough especially as to those who do not know me I seem alright and competent. I also have major depression for over twenty years which has been resistant to treatment and has limited my life options. I think if it was not for working nights in a lower stress environment I would have dropped out of the working world a long time ago.

getmore4less

what is the union saying?

Have you made it clear in consultation that you do not consider the jobs on offer to be suitable alternatives to your contracted roll for the out of hours service that is being discontinued making you redundant.

The pay protection of 6 months is on the short side but if they up that it does not help you.

Are they currently understaffed on these day shift or have these jobs materialised to avoid redundancies?

how many are on the shift(s) being removed?

MeMi_2

getmore4less wrote: »

what is the union saying?

Have you made it clear in consultation that you do not consider the jobs on offer to be suitable alternatives to your contracted roll for the out of hours service that is being discontinued making you redundant.

The pay protection of 6 months is on the short side but if they up that it does not help you.

Are they currently understaffed on these day shift or have these jobs materialised to avoid redundancies?

how many are on the shift(s) being removed?

The union person is currently seeking advice from someone else who should get back to him shortly.
I have made it clear in writing that I find the day job unsuitable on pay and health grounds.
They were not short on the day shifts at all. These jobs seem to have been created to avoid redundancies. The HR woman keeps saying that as there are no loss of posts there is no redundancy. There are about ten of us on the night shift.

getmore4less

I think it will be worth working out/questioning where all this work is coming from.

new workload predictions,
cutting down overtime for others
cutting down the use of bank/contractors.
cutting contractual hours

what will be the increase in FTE on the days shift is every one transfers.

how many have left and what recruitment attempts have there been in the last few months that shows the need for more staff.

What do the sample rota look like with all these new people.

How long before they need to make cuts if no one leaves.