Northern Rock PPI confusion

Carol_E

We took out a Northern Rock mortgage in 1998 and were persuaded to take out PPI. This policy was arranged by Northern Rock and called the Northern Rock Paysafe Plan. It was underwritten first by General Accident, then CGU Insurance plc (t/a Norwich Union). In June 2001, Northern Rock selected Pinnacle Insurance plc (now t/a Cardif Pinnacle) as the underwriter. The first payment made to Pinnacle was on 13 June 2001. On 28 June 2001 we completed a mortgage transfer from Northern Rock to Abbey National which became Santander - this mortgage was paid up in December 2017. When we made the move from Northern Rock to Abbey National we kept the Pinnacle Insurance policy because Abbey just wanted to know that we had PPI in place. We cancelled the Pinnacle policy when we paid off our mortgage in Dec 2017. I am now confused as to whom I should make a PPI claim against. Clearly Northern Rock mis-sold the policy in 1998 which kept going through three different insurers but were they still responsible when we moved our mortgage from Northern Rock to Abbey National in 2001. The PPI policy number has always been our original Northern Rock mortgage number even when we moved our mortgage to Abbey National in 2001. Northern Rock's retail operation is now part of Virgin Money and its asset business part of Cerebus Capital Management. Any thoughts or advice gratefully received.

[Deleted User]

Carol_E wrote: »

Clearly Northern Rock mis-sold the policy in 1998

Why is that?

dunstonh

Clearly Northern Rock mis-sold the policy in 1998

Nothing you have said makes that at all clear.

You would need to complain to NRAM. However, you need to firm up your reasons for missale. Remember most MPPI complaints fail. There is nothing wrong with having MPPI (as a product) and you can still buy it today. One of only two types of PPI still available. So, just having it is not a good enough reason.

Carol_E

I remember a very hard sales line taken by the mortgage adviser that we should have the policy even though we were in full-time employment, our respective firms had redundancy and sick pay policies and we had savings. The hard sell was supported by various leaflets and subsequent letters. In May 1999, I received a letter about the policy cover which states at the beginning ..."the government is supporting a joint initiative from the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) [Northern Rock were a member] to promote the sales of mortgage protection policies like Paysafe...].

[Deleted User]

Carol_E wrote: »

I remember a very hard sales line taken by the mortgage adviser that we should have the policy even though we were in full-time employment

They were and are allowed to "disturb" the customer about the need for insurance. Being in full time employment merely means that the insurance was suitable and that you were eligible

Carol_E wrote: »

our respective firms had redundancy and sick pay policies and we had savings.

No redundancy package is guaranteed and your savings (which you'll have to prove you had ) would need to be very substantial.

Carol_E wrote: »

The hard sell was supported by various leaflets and subsequent letters.

This is insurance for a mortgage, not a loan or credit card. The reasons you have given might gain you a refund of PPI on the latter but they are very weak for the former.

Carol_E wrote: »

In May 1999, I received a letter about the policy cover which states at the beginning ..."the government is supporting a joint initiative from the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) [Northern Rock were a member] to promote the sales of mortgage protection policies like Paysafe...].

This is hardly indicative of mis-selling, not least because you took out the insurance a year earlier!:eek:

dunstonh

I remember a very hard sales line taken by the mortgage adviser that we should have the policy even though we were in full-time employment,

Full time employment is a requirement for MPPI. So, you just confirmed you were eligible for it. So, no missale there.

Pressure sales are allowed as long as you do not cross the line. The term is known as "disturbance". People who complain about pressure sales have no evidence. However, if you complain within weeks, maybe months, then you are considered credible. If you complain decades later then you have no credibility on that point.

our respective firms had redundancy and sick pay policies and we had savings.

MPPI pays out in addition to redundancy and redundancy pay is not guaranteed. if the company fails, you only get statutory.

Sick pay is not considered to be an issue with MPPI. Whilst that reason works well with credit card and loan PPI, the FOS have been routinely rejecting complaints from people with 12 months sick pay in respect of MPPI.

If you had sufficient savings, then why were you borrowing money on the mortgage? Savings typically needs to be for a fairly large amount. At least 12 months income. I saw a FOS rejection the other day that rejected a complaint from someone that had £20,000 in savings back then.

The hard sell was supported by various leaflets and subsequent letters. In May 1999, I received a letter about the policy cover which states at the beginning ..."the government is supporting a joint initiative from the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) [Northern Rock were a member] to promote the sales of mortgage protection policies like Paysafe...].

Again, this supports the sale. It doesnt help your complaint. It was considered best advice to have MPPI by the Council of mortgage lenders.

You seem to think there is a problem with MPPI. There isnt. Do not get loan and credit card PPI mixed up with MPPI. Whilst any product can be missold. It does not mean the product is a failure.

AstroTurtle

Carol_E wrote: »

I remember a very hard sales line taken by the mortgage adviser that we should have the policy even though we were in full-time employment, our respective firms had redundancy and sick pay policies and we had savings. The hard sell was supported by various leaflets and subsequent letters. In May 1999, I received a letter about the policy cover which states at the beginning ..."the government is supporting a joint initiative from the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) [Northern Rock were a member] to promote the sales of mortgage protection policies like Paysafe...].

Having worked for a bank since 2007. (Not selling PPI) I have seen many many people in those circumstances you described yourself in USE PPI and claim on it very successful especially during 2009-2010 when a lot of redundancies happened and sick pay policies were heavily reduced.




If your this confident about the miss-sale and can recall it al so perfectly. You could of just said No thanks don't want it.


Pursue it as you wish, but you may have a lack of evidence to support your accusations of miss-sale. If the bank ends up defending their case you could lose out the other way.