Help with Small Claims Court/Bank transaction

ndrepebx

About 3 months ago I started a new business and starting running a Public House. A company called Clements Agency reached out to me offering their services to lower the business rates for me. I replied to one of their emails explaining that the only time I would agree to take their services is, if I do NOT to pay any fees in advance and that would only to pay them from the savings that they would make by lowering my business rates. Eventually, one of their representatives kept calling me still and I explained the same over the phone. They managed to convince me over the phone that, because they are so sure they can save me money, they would only need £70 deposit from me and then take any fees and commission from the savings. I questioned the emails that they had send me about the rates and this person told me to ignore the emails as they are just standard emails that they always send to everyone.
I then agreed to pay this deposit over the phone and gave my card details for the deposit payment.
2 Weeks later this company then took another £770 from my bank without my authorisation, so I called them immediately and informed them that I was not happy with this and that I had never agreed for them to take this money. I have been back and forth with these people and all the keep saying that they have emailed me their T&Cs and that I have agreed to them and that the money is for their fees. I have seen these emails but have NEVER told them that I agree those terms. I have not signed any paperwork but they say since I have agreed to pay the deposit, then this means that I have agreed their rates.
I have told them from the first day when they took the £770 that I do not wish to proceed with their services and that I wanted a refund for both transactions, the £70 deposit and the £770 unauthorised payment. At some point after I had paid the deposit and verbally agreed that they won't take any money until they lower my rates, I have replied to one of their emails which had an attached form with my company/business information and these information they had was incorrect so I corrected the form and emailed back the form. However, somewhere on that email they still had those charges written down and although I replied to that email with the form, I never informed them that I agree to their charges. The form had a signature field also and this was left blank. I demanded that they provide a call recording from the day when I paid the deposit as this would be very simple to find out what was said but they said they don't record phone calls and that they never verbally agree contracts over the phone.
I have informed them that Trading Standards will be informed about this and also told them that if they don't refund the money I will take the matter to court. They are still refusing to refund the money.

Is there anyone that can help me with this matter?? I do want to take them to small claims court but wanted to get some advice before I go ahead.
Thank you

agrinnall

You don't seem to have taken the obvious step of advising your bank that the transaction was unauthorised and to request that they refund the money. Why not?

soolin

agrinnall wrote: »

You don't seem to have taken the obvious step of advising your bank that the transaction was unauthorised and to request that they refund the money. Why not?

Is it that simple if OP? If ts and Cs were in the emails that OP didn't like and he then went ahead and paid a deposit to secure the services is is going to be easy to evidence the transaction was unauthorised?

This is further complicated by it being a B2B transaction and I'm not sure if the same rules apply to business accounts as they do to,personal bank accounts.

Even if the bank does refund the money, it will only be pending investigation, and if the other company can demonstrate to the bank that the OP has any form of contract, then the money will be repaid to the other business.

This might be something that the OP may need proper paid business advice about. Are there any business or local chamber of commerce groups or such like for publicans that could help?

ndrepebx

I have actually informed my bank but it doesn't seem to be that straight forward. The need to investigate and the say if there is some sort of contract they would need to see this.
The main issue is that the agency says that we do have a contract but I have not agreed this contract. The fact that they tricked me over the phone to pay the deposit, it now appears as if I have agreed to take this contract which I have not. The agency does not record the phone calls either.
I do agree that I was a fool to believe them over the phone and agree to pay the deposit. However, this does not make it right and these people should not be allowed to do this!
There seems to be a few other unhappy people with same issue as me if you visit the uk trustpilot dot com and search the company "clementsagency". Sorry, I can't post the link here, but quite a few people having the same issue.
So I'm not alone after all!!

steampowered

Did they send you the T&Cs before you paid the deposit? Paying the deposit could be construed as agreeing to the T&Cs.

It is perfectly possible to start a court claim for this money. The basis of your claim would be (1) that the payment was unauthorised or (2) alternatively, that the defendant misrepresented the contract you over the phone and in emails.

It would then be up to the defendant to try and prove that there was a contract in place entitling them to this money. Until they explain that in their defence to your claim, we are speculating a bit as to what the outcome would be.

A sensible next step would be to write a formal 'letter before action' asking for the money back within 14 days. The letter should very briefly explain that the deduction was unauthorised, explaining that you had made it clear you are not willing to pay charges up front and what you were told by the company's representatives.

You then wait and see what sort of response you get to that letter, as that will tell you what angle the defendant is taking.

bris

Unfortunately with B2B contracts the law recommends that you seek legal advice before doing anything if you are unsure.


What you need to do is read these emails again and see what they actually say. It seems you have made the mistake of not actually reading them properly.


You don't need to sign a contract for it to be enforceable, online, emails etc are also acceptable now, times have long since changed compared to when everything need a wet signature.

lincroft1710

3 rules for future reference

1. Avoid doing business with cold callers
2. Get everything in writing before parting with money
3. Use only proper RICS well established rating surveyors if you are trying to get your non-domestic (business) rates reduced

ndrepebx

bris wrote: »

You don't need to sign a contract for it to be enforceable, online, emails etc are also acceptable now, times have long since changed compared to when everything need a wet signature.

I remember one of the Martin Lewis videos a few years ago when he said "If someone says to you they're going to punch you, and then they do punch you, it doesn't make it legal just because they told you they were going to do it"
Same principle applies here also. They did send those emails but I did not ask them to send the emails, nor did I accept any of their terms.

Deposit was taken over the phone and totally different terms and conditions were discussed over the phone. Problem is that they do not record the calls (or at least they say they don't). Things would be very simple if they did record the call and play it back.