90 seconds

Coupon-mad

She's not impartial but I have often thought she needs to hear the terrible situations that private parking operators are causing to genuine disabled people. So let her hear it.

This is not justifiable. VCS and the IPC should hang their heads in shame, IMHO, for this one.

Johno100

twhitehousescat wrote: »

Helen Dolphoin may not be as impartial as you think , she advertises on the IPC website , in fact her own website was set up and registered by the IPC at one stage

You can add to that she is the IPC's "Community Champion" and spoke at last years IPC Annual Conference in Nottingham.

https://theipc.info/latest-news

IRC she was also with Disabled Motoring UK when they had a very cosy relationship with certain PPCs and were giving erroneous information out on their website re the interaction of the Blue Badge scheme on private land and the Equality Act.

ellaro

It doesnt sound like its worth bothering with her?

Coupon-mad

Ellaro, look at what I said.

She has IMHO been completely and utterly 'got at' by PPC World. In their pockets, it seems.

Isn't it time disabled people got on at her about that? Told her AGAIN and AGAIN what is happening? After all, she took on Norwich Council and forced them to change a policy for BB holders, due to discrimination and failing to make reasonable adjustments.

Ask how she justifies NEVER reportedly criticising a private parking firm for the same?

She needs to hear this AGAIN and AGAIN, every week would be good.

IMHO Helen Dolphin has been completely misled and sweet talked, and indeed, used. She needs to stop and take a close look at PPC World, a proper look.

Ralph-y

I agree .....

she should be reminded of ....

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill


and just some of the MP's quotes ....

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.


Ralph:cool:

Johno100

Coupon-mad wrote: »

IMHO Helen Dolphin has been completely misled and sweet talked, and indeed, used. She needs to stop and take a close look at PPC World, a proper look.

I think that is being a might charitable given she runs a commercial parking accreditation firm as well that charges handsomely for their endorsement

People’s Parking is cost effective £100 +VAT for the first year for car parks with 200 spaces or fewer and £150 +VAT for the first year for car parks with 201 spaces or more. Fee includes parking sign and access to free information and advice. Renewal fee is £75 +VAT for car parks with 200 spaces or fewer and £125 +VAT for car parks with 201 spaces or more.

http://www.peoplesparking.org/howtoapply

Looks like they've currently got c230 car parks 'on their books'.

http://www.peoplesparking.org/sites/directory

Castle

Johno100 wrote: »

I think that is being a might charitable given she runs a commercial parking accreditation firm as well that charges handsomely for their endorsement

http://www.peoplesparking.org/howtoapply

Looks like they've currently got c230 car parks 'on their books'.

http://www.peoplesparking.org/sites/directory

Including a testimonial from "Excel Parking Services":-
http://www.peoplesparking.org/Testimonials

Coupon-mad

And she needs to hear complaints from disabled people. She should be ashamed, IMHO.

Not spared.

Johno100

Castle wrote: »

Including a testimonial from "Excel Parking Services":-
http://www.peoplesparking.org/Testimonials

Have a look at some of the other names that scroll through at the bottom of my first link.

Loadsofchildren123

OK. I agree re pursuing dear old Helen, even if you won't get anywhere. Tell her anyway and that she should be ashamed for letting the use her name to claim they are not discriminating against you when quite clearly they have. Maybe you could get another disability discrimination champion behind you?


Back to the claim itself. If I were you, I'd feel very comfortable indeed about defending this. And I would start setting yourself up now for an unreasonable costs claim and a EA counterclaim. And keep on complaining about what the attendant said to you and how he must have watched you struggling to walk to a sign to read it and allowed you no grace period at all.


PPC's legal claims centre on the fact that there was a contract entered into by a driver who parks, the terms of which are set out on the signs. To accept those terms you must have an opportunity to read them. The IPC/BPA CoP set out various requirements about how signs should be displayed so that they can be seen (in your case the relevant CoP is the IPC one). Both CoPs also provide that there should be a grace period to allow a driver to find and read the signs before the period of parking, and to exit the car park after the period of parking.


Contracts require 4 things:
1 an invitation to treat (an invitation to enter into a contract - this is the display of signage)
2. an offer (the wording on the signs)
3. an acceptance (the act of parking once the offer has been communicated)
4. consideration (something of value in return for what you get)


1-2 require you to have seen and read the terms offered, 3 requires you to decide that you wish to carry on with the parking, 4 you have not paid any consideration because as a blue badge holder you are exempt under their terms, but you have had something for value as you have had the parking.


You would argue that there could not have been any acceptance until you had read the terms and returned to your vehicle to display your badge and lock it up (actually you weren't aware at the time you were in a disabled space, so you may also then have looked around to find a space and then realised you were in one anyway, or you may have moved your car to a more clearly marked disabled bay). Your act of acceptance would have been to lock up and leave your car at that point. Therefore there can be no contract at the point in time when the PCN was issued.


I think the CoP also contains provision for disabled drivers, which says that a sign must be displayed which can be read from the car, without the driver having to get out and have to seek out/walk over to one.


In your case the above provision was breached, and this is also a breach of the EA.


The contract cannot be formed until you have had a reasonable opportunity to read the signs. It is clear that a period of less than 80 (or was it 90?) seconds is inadequate. It was not until the end of that period, the time it took you to exit your car, find a sign then return, that you could be deemed to have entered into any contract. So they have no basis upon which to sue you and you argue that there was no contract formed during that initial one and a half minutes. On top of that, you argue that you should have been given additional grace time as a disabled person. The attendant must have watched you and realised what was happening, which was entrapment (forbidden by the CoP). And then disgracefully he made totally misleading, incorrect and inappropriate remarks to you. His employers are responsible for him (vicarious liability).


I think that although you've done your appeal and complaint, write a letter to the PPC setting all of this out again and say that any proceedings will be vigorously defended on the basis that there was no contract at all, and even if there was it is an implied term that you must have the opportunity to comply with it which you were not given. Ask for an explanation of their attendant's actions and what he told you. Tell them you will counterclaim for discrimination under the EA. Tell them never to write to you again and to cease retaining and processing your data under the Data Protection Act.


Every time you get a letter from debt collectors, reply sending this letter with a covering letter saying "I have already told your client that I reject any claim made that I owe it money, please see letter attached. Please stop writing to me. I consider that your letter, when considered in conjunction with other letters I have received, constitutes harassment of me under the Protection from Harassment Act. I reserve all my rights.".


Send a copy of every letter to the PPC at the same time. Say in the covering letter "I have received [yet another] letter from debt collectors acting on your behalf. I enclose a copy of their letter and my response. Your continued attempts to coerce me into parting with money which I do not owe you is clearly harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act. You are also continuing to process my data, which is a breach of my rights under the Data Protection Act. Please stop processing my data and please stop writing to me (directly or via agents instructed by you). This is the [second/third/fourth/fifth etc] time I have written to you in these terms. In the meantime, I reserve all my rights."


Do this every time anybody writes to you. The idea is to set up a paper trail you can later rely on in a counterclaim (both under the EA and the Protection from Harassment Act and possibly also the Data Protection Act) and also in relation to costs.

At the same time, set up a trail of evidence which shows how distressing you have found the PPC's constant attempts to harass and pester you. Tell colleagues. Tell family. Tell your doctor. Text and email them describing your upset. Let them all see you crying into your tea about how upsetting you find it and how scared you are that they will force you to pay up when you don't think you owe them anything and have tried to reason with them.