Is forcing staff to be self employed legal

hgvdriverhelp

Hi everyone, new to the forum and i would like your opinion on this please.

Lets say i own a multi million pound blue chip company like TESCO or ASDA but i don't want to pay any taxes for my employees anymore?
In a word i want to do what this forum is by 'Cutting Tax'

Would it be perfectly legal for me being (TESCO or ASDA) to sack everyone i employ then set up an Agency to employ them back (But they have to be self employed) that's the only choice they have to be working any more for me or if they disagree they will never work for me again.

Lets say these are my rules.

1. They will work for me full time with set shift times and set shift patterns.
2. The will work the minimum of 45 hours per week
3. They buy there own uniform (which i provide with my company name on the back but they pay for it!)
4. They have to book holidays 2 weeks in advance (but i do not pay holidays because they are self employed)
5.They cannot work for anyone else (like Morrison's or Aldi) if i catch them they are sacked.
6. They can work for me for as many years as they like as long as they stick to the rules above.
7. There Job never changes, who ever we set on will go to work and finish work in the same store.

8. I want all these people to have Limited Companies or use an Umbrella Group.

Would this be legal for me to cut tax this way?

your thoughts please?

unforeseen

My thoughts?

You would be an employer without any staff

Even half those things would make HMRC decide that they are employees and expect you to take the appropriate actions

And considering your previous experience of owning a company I don't think you'd get very far

Pennywise

HMRC have an "employee status indicator". Unless the "workers" are genuinely self employed, then the "employer" wouldn't get away with it. HMRC would go after the employer for the employment taxes/NICs.

elsien

You couldn't just sack them all anyway, presuming some employees have been there longer than two years. Unless you want a succession of employment tribunals on your hands.

I presume your query is related to this?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5794195

hgvdriverhelp

So basically then my friends you all agree that if i was TESCO or ASDA and actually acted just like this then it would be totally against the law of the land?
What if i had actually done this for 4 years and continue to do so and absolutely nothing has been said about it.

Let me give another example.

Lets say i am Tesco or ASDA and i get my CEO's and Operations Managers to set up an agency (clearly in the name of the CEO's)
Then i get them to employ thousands of people just like this-making all these people Limited Companies or force them into Unbrella Groups at the end of which all the money that Tesco/Asda saves in not paying employment taxes gets split between the very CEO's and Op's managers that set up the agency.

Lets make it a nice round figure of 6 million a year ?

would we say that this is a good way to cut tax?

hgvdriverhelp

elsien wrote: »

You couldn't just sack them all anyway, presuming some employees have been there longer than two years. Unless you want a succession of employment tribunals on your hands.

I presume your query is related to this?

yes sir it is, i am wanting to get as much information on these crooks as possible. I may well be at the blunt end of a big stick but i am furious that this was allowed to continue after think accounting. the BBC were far to late!

hgvdriverhelp

unforeseen wrote: »

My thoughts?

You would be an employer without any staff

Even half those things would make HMRC decide that they are employees and expect you to take the appropriate actions

And considering your previous experience of owning a company I don't think you'd get very far

Trust me they got far all right!
4 years and counting. thousands of people in my town work just like this. and nothing has been done about it.
nothing.

busybee100

Where in the country are you hgvdriverhelp? Does your MP know what's happening?
Has anyone reported the bluechip company to HMRC?

You need someone to help with your personal tax affairs but it would be good to get the bigger story addressed.

hgvdriverhelp

busybee100 wrote: »

Where in the country are you hgvdriverhelp? Does your MP know what's happening?
Has anyone reported the bluechip company to HMRC?

You need someone to help with your personal tax affairs but it would be good to get the bigger story addressed.

I tried to contact my local MP anonymously ,never worked as parliament email addresses will not accept anonymous emails.
I tried HMRC so many times i lost track, it's like talking to a brick wall.

When the BBC highlighted think accounting everyone in my area was laughing, those guys they interviewed were 2014 drivers? Think accounting were just a small ripple in a very big pond, basically they gave ideas to huge companies because they all recruited drivers threw that agency who used think accounting.

BBC didn't mention that ether. I was worried when i watched that they passed the blame on the drivers and those lads were made to pay the money back, it was not there fault but you have to understand that if they were to tell the BBC what i have just told you then it's not really self employed is it? (they would not get any work!)
I am just learning this about business now and i should not be, i should have been taught this before anything happened and i wasn't, all i should be doing now is working Monday to Friday, clocking in clocking out, getting my holiday pay and going camping in the summer, But the fact is the only people taking holidays who arn't in as much trouble as i appear to be in are the company directors who share 6 million quid a year off the backs of people like me and the other drivers they are clearly exploiting .

BorisThomson

I am just learning this about business now and i should not be, i should have been taught this before anything happened and i wasn't,

No, you should have researched this before you entered into this situation. It's not for someone else to teach you.

Please call Business Debtline as soon as you can.

hgvdriverhelp

BorisThomson wrote: »

No, you should have researched this before you entered into this situation. It's not for someone else to teach you.

Please call Business Debtline as soon as you can.

This is exactly what i'm talking about Sir because you are obviously educated in such fields , but please can i kindly explain to you who i am- as i don't judge you and respect you very much as i have never met you?
I was not gifted with an education , i struggle very much with numbers and letters and left school at 14 years old.
I chose to be a lorry driver, i eat fish and chips without a knife and fork and when i get paid after a 50 hour week i give most of my money to my kids and my mrs - we live week by week as the money i earn is never gonna buy me a castle in the sky but thats my simple life in a nut shell.
I never wanted to be anything else, i like the road and now and again i go to church.


What good my friend is a man without purpose ?

And thats not a question, you know as well as i do that a man needs a purpose or he doesn't feel like a man anymore ,we all need a purpose thats what makes us civilised.
So i ask you if that man has to decide right now to just stop what he is doing and become a ballet dancer or do NOTHING ...do you think he could do it ? no of course not...he's a lorry driver, he wants to drive. .
So what if he has to stop right now OR sign these papers?, and all the papers say is that he is now self employed and £1 an hour richer. When he asks if it's 'legal' the reply is "don't worry, we sort everything for you, all you do is drive like always, we do the rest...and your much better off!"

Well it's better than ballet dancing isn't it and he still has a purpose.