Not paid any tax for 5 years. Help

just_trying

hgvdriverhelp wrote: »

they used to send me an email every week but to be honest i never really read it because they always paid me on time , i just put it in the trash.
It had like a pay breakdown of hours worked if that is what you mean?
But No there was never any VAT showing but the slip was always about £100 less than what actually went into my bank. I presumed this was the benefit of having a limited company (a perk).
Because lets face it, if i have to pay tax and national insurance and VAT and uniform and holidays and sick , surely this is not right ?
That would make me in reality below minimum wage wouldn't it ?

Hi, I won't quote your below post as well. .I don't know how to multi quote bits.

You had a payslip sent weekly, you choose to ignore what was written. If your a lorry driver on the minimum wage then clearly that's the wrong job. My oh is a lorry driver , yes the pays not great but minimum wage no, considering the responsibility the pays not great but pays the bills. You should have been looking what they sent you.

I'm sure Mcdonald workers get payslips showing there tax and ni contributions.

You've chosen to go down the self employed route and should have been putting money aside and checking what they were sending, not everything seems fine. You should pay what you owe like other people need to, why should you get away with it when other people have paid.

I'm sure you've made sure your cpc is up to date, you should be checking everything.

Ilona

Windofchange wrote: »

It would seem that HMRC are already aware of the problem.

http://jcoates.co.uk/uncategorized/lorry-drivers-stung-over-accounting-firm-tax-dodge/

That link brought memories back, I trained for my HGV licence with J Coates, in 1976, before all this self employed - limited company malarkey took hold. A few years later I did work for them as an agency driver, employed on the books, still no talk of setting up a limited company.

Fast forward a few more years, towards the end of my driving career, things were changing. I was working for an agency for seven years, exclusively for the same large multinational company. I was given the option of becoming a limited company. Some drivers took this route as they saw it as a way of keeping more of their earnings, being a director of their company. I chose not to do that, I could see problems.

I had previously been a self employed relief driver with regular customers, kept my own books, and employed an accountant. I had to convince HMRC that I was self employed, because I didn't lay out any money to start my business. They agreed I could be.

When the opportunity came up later to change from employed agency driver to limited company, I didn't want to go down that route.

I do believe the limited company thing was a way to dump all administrative responsibilities on to the driver. They made it sound attractive, eg, you will be in control, you will pay less tax. This model does not suit everybody, and as the OP says, he is a driver not a business person.

Op, I am sorry you got caught up in all this, but now your priority has to be to sort yourself out. A lot of drivers in your situation will have accountants, and will have run their business in a legitimate way.

If you want to carry on fighting your corner you need to find every scrap of paper related to your employment/self employment. The best thing to do would be to find a reasonably priced accountant who deals with small businesses. Get some quotes. It will take a while to sort out, but if you keep on burying your head in the sand it can only get worse. Good luck.

Ilona

hgvdriverhelp

Ilona wrote: »

That link brought memories back, I trained for my HGV licence with J Coates, in 1976, before all this self employed - limited company malarkey took hold. A few years later I did work for them as an agency driver, employed on the books, still no talk of setting up a limited company.

Fast forward a few more years, towards the end of my driving career, things were changing. I was working for an agency for seven years, exclusively for the same large multinational company. I was given the option of becoming a limited company. Some drivers took this route as they saw it as a way of keeping more of their earnings, being a director of their company. I chose not to do that, I could see problems.

I had previously been a self employed relief driver with regular customers, kept my own books, and employed an accountant. I had to convince HMRC that I was self employed, because I didn't lay out any money to start my business. They agreed I could be.

When the opportunity came up later to change from employed agency driver to limited company, I didn't want to go down that route.

I do believe the limited company thing was a way to dump all administrative responsibilities on to the driver. They made it sound attractive, eg, you will be in control, you will pay less tax. This model does not suit everybody, and as the OP says, he is a driver not a business person.

Op, I am sorry you got caught up in all this, but now your priority has to be to sort yourself out. A lot of drivers in your situation will have accountants, and will have run their business in a legitimate way.

If you want to carry on fighting your corner you need to find every scrap of paper related to your employment/self employment. The best thing to do would be to find a reasonably priced accountant who deals with small businesses. Get some quotes. It will take a while to sort out, but if you keep on burying your head in the sand it can only get worse. Good luck.

Ilona

thanks for this, yes you are right, from 2012 (ish) hardly anyone will set you on if you are not using a self employed route . My area is virtually impossible to get on the books for anyone who pay well.
You understand at least the situation , I was happy where i was working obviously so that is why this has gone on for so long-everything seemed to work, i never got demanding letters or bills to pay so i thought the company was legit.

It's only now i have left and gone somewhere else that i have had question marks over what the hell has been going on for 4 years.

Many people have told me i really am not self employed if i have been working like this, they have also said that this company is acting unlawful because it cannot treat staff as employees yet force them to being self employed.

hgvdriverhelp

just_trying wrote: »

Hi, I won't quote your below post as well. .I don't know how to multi quote bits.

You had a payslip sent weekly, you choose to ignore what was written. If your a lorry driver on the minimum wage then clearly that's the wrong job. My oh is a lorry driver , yes the pays not great but minimum wage no, considering the responsibility the pays not great but pays the bills. You should have been looking what they sent you.

I'm sure Mcdonald workers get payslips showing there tax and ni contributions.

You've chosen to go down the self employed route and should have been putting money aside and checking what they were sending, not everything seems fine. You should pay what you owe like other people need to, why should you get away with it when other people have paid.

I'm sure you've made sure your cpc is up to date, you should be checking everything.

Is your other half self employed ?
The cpc comment is ridiculous, i know what a cpc is, i'm a driver . however i do not understand business or limited companies which is why i am here. i was made to set this up to get work. big difference.
I put my trust in these people as you would with brain surgeon if you needed a transplant, do patients learn brain surgery before they go into hospital or do they put there trust in the DR's who know about things like this ?


I am astonished to be honest that you live with a HGV driver and he has not mentioned that the whole country has been virtually forced to be self employed.

`Some driver i can see the argument, they do different jobs for different companies every day and virtually live away from home but when a driver is doing the same job every day at the same place at the same time wearing a uniform with XXX written on the back. thats not self employed is it-it's fraud.
So before i sort anything out i need to get my facts right because i will not lie to save there skins.

When i mention minimum wage please read again my situation and do the maths, i thought everything was being done for me like i was told.
So if i really have to deduct tax, national insurance, vat, accountants, uniform , sick pay and holiday pay from £10.50 an hour -i'd say thats below minimum wage wouldn't you?

...and times that by thousands of drivers?

That's wrong, it's against the law and it has to stop.

hgvdriverhelp

Just to recap on this now i need to see an accountant to sort out this mess and he will more than likely ask me a few questions to see if i fall in or out of the IR35 rules.
From what i have read from you guys and what i am learning online i obviously i'm not self employed ?
OK i may have to pay back a fortune in taxes which i don't have but what can i offer in terms of payment back to HMRC if the company i have worked for only employs self employed people and have basically taken over 75% of the agency work in my area.

Will i have to set up another company that is IR35 compliant by lying to the accountant so i can pay HMRC back?

One other small thing that could open up another can of worms is the 'working for somebody else clause' lets say i do lie to the accountant so i can get work to pay back HMRC, if i tell the company i work for i need to work somewhere else to be IR35 compliant they sack me...

Is somebody else going to tell me "it's all my fault" again now or is anybody going to agree that this situation is totally wrong.

hgvdriverhelp

Ilona wrote: »

That link brought memories back,

Fast forward a few more years, towards the end of my driving career, things were changing. I was working for an agency for seven years, exclusively for the same large multinational company. I was given the option of becoming a limited company. Some drivers took this route as they saw it as a way of keeping more of their earnings, being a director of their company. I chose not to do that, I could see problems.

I heard two guys who first set up with think accounting actually died from the stress. 1 had a heart attack the other a serious accident due to nights without sleep worrying.
You got out at the right time, the 'golden triangle' is now 75% self employed and you have little chance of getting a regular PAYE job that pays well.
This is not because the jobs arn't there at all, it's an agenda to avoid tax and it's pure greed. These are multi million pound companies, they can afford to take everyone on and give security to thousands of families but instead they choose to exploit us and treat us like slaves.

glider3560

hgvdriverhelp wrote: »

When i mention minimum wage please read again my situation and do the maths, i thought everything was being done for me like i was told.
So if i really have to deduct tax, national insurance, vat, accountants, uniform , sick pay and holiday pay from £10.50 an hour -i'd say thats below minimum wage wouldn't you?

People earning minimum wage are still subject to tax and national insurance deductions from their salary.

VAT really depends what was in your contract. If £10.50 is ex. VAT, then you should have added 20% onto the invoice and then pay that to HMRC. If it is £10.50 inc. VAT, then you obviously have to account for the VAT yourself (i.e. £8.75 ex. VAT). You said you always received about £100 per week more than expected - this was probably the VAT element that you were supposed to remit to HMRC (i.e. the £10.50 was ex. VAT).

I've just done a very rough calculation here:

• Self Employed: £10.50 per hour for 40 hours per week, working 46.4 weeks per year (i.e. the 5.6 weeks of holiday you get as an employee) = £19488 per year. You then charge the "employer" the VAT on top.
• Minimum wage employee £7.50 per hours for 52 weeks: £15600 per year. Still has to pay tax and NI, like the self employed person.

Even deducting money for accountants and uniforms, you will still be earning more than the minimum wage.

antonic

You will get credit for approaching HMRC to make them aware of your existence (after you have spoken to Business Line first of course.
HMRC will give you credit for approaching them and the more co-operate with them, the more any possible penalties & fines *could* be reduced.
Also when your final debt is established HMRC will listen to any reasonable repayment request.
HTH

hgvdriverhelp

glider3560 wrote: »

• Self Employed: £10.50 per hour for 40 hours per week, working 46.4 weeks per year (i.e. the 5.6 weeks of holiday you get as an employee) = £19488 per year. You then charge the "employer" the VAT on top.
• Minimum wage employee £7.50 per hours for 52 weeks: £15600 per year. Still has to pay tax and NI, like the self employed person.

Even deducting money for accountants and uniforms, you will still be earning more than the minimum wage.

Thanks for this, i didn't know as an employer they have to pay 5.6 weeks in holidays over a 40+ hours week.
I wonder what big companies have to pay in employers national insurance too?
Then there is uniform and ppe equipment, training and administration, payrol and unions , maternity pay and sick pay then the hourly rate they pay is obviously added to that cost.
So in reality an employee of a company who is being paid £10.50 per hour really costs the company almost double that?

I can see now why this has been allowed to happen and i believe that if all the above is taken away from that £10.50 per hour -well it's below minimum wage for sure if i now have to pay vat and taxes . I would never have agreed to give my self this much hassle for so little gains. nobody would.

and lets not forget a very important thing now, also for that 10.50 per hour i have now come to realise by learning what some of you guys have mentioned that if i do not 'Lie' to accountants and pretend to be self employed i won't have any work at all?

surely something has to be put in place to stop this ?

hgvdriverhelp

antonic wrote: »

You will get credit for approaching HMRC to make them aware of your existence (after you have spoken to Business Line first of course.
HMRC will give you credit for approaching them and the more co-operate with them, the more any possible penalties & fines *could* be reduced.
Also when your final debt is established HMRC will listen to any reasonable repayment request.
HTH

Hopefully they will give me credit for exposing such a fraud too.
If DPD can get investigated and Think Accounting get put on TV ...well the company i have been working for makes them look like saints doesn't it.

At a guess 2000 HGV drivers working as full time employees for 4 years.
Drivers treated just like employees and made to wear a uniform that they have to buy with that companies name on.
No Holiday pay, no sick pay and you can't work for anyone else or your sacked.
Drivers regularly have to sit disciplinaries, given warnings and written warnings just like a regular employee.
Start work at the same time in the same place doing the same shift every day as one would when he clocks in and clocks out of a factory.
2 weeks notice has to be given to book any holidays (which arn't paid because your self employed)
You use that companies vehicles, that companies fuel and that companies canteen.
and 99% of drivers go home after a shift like you would if you went to work at the office for the day.