A few Questions, Advice Needed.

Jeanie_84

TBagpuss wrote: »

OP, the reason you haeven't found anything saying 4 siblings are wentitled to equal shares is becuase (in English Law, anyway) there is no such rule.

The starting point is that everyone has 'testamentary freedom' which means that your dad was free to leave his estate however he wanted. He could have chosen to leave 100% of it to a single child, had he wanted.


There are there rules which allow certain people to contest a will. That includes children, so your sisters have standing to issue a claim - that doesn't mean they would win.

As I understand it, in order for them to succeed, they would have to show one or more of the following:

- Your dad didn't have proper capacity when he made his will (unlikely, he had a solicitor and they would consider this at the time. Also, he left something to each of you, so it doesn't look as though he had (for example) forgotten how many children he had ad left some of them out)

- Your dad made the will as a result of undue influence or duress - i.e. that you or your sister made him favour you over over your siblings. Again, the fact that he made the will via a solicitor is strong evidence against this - the solicitor 's notes will show you were not in the room when your dad gave instructions and signed the will, and they should also be able to confirm that they were satisfied that your dad made his own decisions.

- that your dad failed to make reasonable provision for them. This is the ground which was used in the high profile Ilott case. However, it's normally pretty tough to prove as the court has to be satisfied that his decisions were unreasonable, and in this case, he did not disinherit your siblings, he simply chose to be more generous to you. Unless they were directly financially dependent on him at the time he died, they would struggle.

I would suggest that you check all this with the solicitor but assuming they don't say anything different, get them to write to you sisters to say that you will be following the terms of your dad's will and his wishes, and will not be agreeing any variation.

My understanding is that if they were to contest, the costs would come out of the estate in the first instance, but that a court could make costs orders against them if they lose.

Why did you need probate if the money from the bank account was already split? if there are any further assets in the estate perhaps reminding therm that you won't be able to distribute anything further until any potential claims against the estate are dealt with may focus their minds, as that would mean they would get nothing further as long as they seek to pursue any claim, as that money may be needed to fund the case for the estate.

Sorry to jump in but if you are in the solicitors room when a will is constructed and signed is that a reason alone for it to be contested?

Yorkshireman99

Jeanie_84 wrote: »

Sorry to jump in but if you are in the solicitors room when a will is constructed and signed is that a reason alone for it to be contested?

Of course not.

YoungBlueEyes

Even at 2am you reply with minutes Do you ever sleep YM?

Update: I emailed no2 with my response, she forwarded it to no1 as I don't have her email. I initially wrote an angry diatribe, but deleted it and wrote a long, calm, logical counter-argument, full of all the things that come to you afterwards that you wished you'd said. I spent 3 days on it, it's a beautiful thing.

Both of my solicitors (family solic who's known us for years and drew up the will, and paid-for contentious probate/wills guy) have both said they don't recommend doing anything official until I get something official through the post. Neither of them think that'll happen but both say it could possibly maybe do. So I emailed them but shan't respond to anything again unless they get serious and something official arrives.

So for now the waiting continues. Who'll blink first?

Yorkshireman99

YoungBlueEyes wrote: »

Even at 2am you reply with minutes Do you ever sleep YM?

Update: I emailed no2 with my response, she forwarded it to no1 as I don't have her email. I initially wrote an angry diatribe, but deleted it and wrote a long, calm, logical counter-argument, full of all the things that come to you afterwards that you wished you'd said. I spent 3 days on it, it's a beautiful thing.

Both of my solicitors (family solic who's known us for years and drew up the will, and paid-for contentious probate/wills guy) have both said they don't recommend doing anything official until I get something official through the post. Neither of them think that'll happen but both say it could possibly maybe do. So I emailed them but shan't respond to anything again unless they get serious and something official arrives.

So for now the waiting continues. Who'll blink first?

My bladder alarm went off and I could not get back to sleep so I looked here. The two solicitors advice is good.

YoungBlueEyes

Update: They blinked first.
No1 rang our family solicitor asking for details of the bank account. Solicitor called me in and basically said I should move up a gear and engage contentious wills solicitor.
Made an appointment and happily he seems like a proper rottweiler Also, although he is expensive, I think he'll be worth the money. He quickly pointed out a few things that are completely new to me and is happy I have nothing to worry about. He advised that all communication should now be between him and 1+2's solicitor, so I text 1 to ask for the contact details but haven't received them yet.
I'm looking at a bigger bill than I thought though. Rottweiler can represent me as a beneficiary but not as executor as that would be conflict of interest (one of the new issues). But he thinks family solicitor could do that part and will arrange that with him if it comes to it.
Rottweiler is drafting a letter re the bank statements for me to approve before sending to 1 2 + 4, then we'll see what happens.

YoungBlueEyes

Update. They got their letters today (well D4 did...) so we'll see what happens next.

Just to add to the sum of knowledge - new things that rottweiler highlighted are:
1. He can't represent me as beneficiary and executrice, so that's another bill for another solic (depending on response to the letters).
2. The money in the bank account was technically mine when we took dad's name off the account as it had been a joint account for a long time. It did not form part of the estate. Dad technically was worth £0 as soon as he passed (no house or money in the bank) so I've given D1+D2 nearly £6.5k of my own money but I'm leaving that for the minute. Pick your battles etc
3. Me and D4 agreed that D1+D2 shouldn't have to pay for dad's memorial stone. There were disagreements about what to write on it, D1+D2 said as dad's ashes were going in our mum's grave they didn't want to contribute to paying for it. Me +D4 thought that was fair enough actually but legally we were wrong. It should have come from the estate before the money was split. Leaving that for the minute too.

Rottweiler said I needed to be guided by him if it came to maybe perhaps doing a deal to keep it out of court. Apparently there's plenty of folk with an "I'm not wrong so I'm not backing down no matter what" type attitude that would have been better making a deal if their solic thought it was the best option. He said he works it out like a business deal - there's no point losing everything just to not pay them, say, £10k. I said fine, but it has to come from the 'extra' they've already had (the bank account and not having paid for dad's memorial stone). He said I took the words right out of his mouth!
That's down to all you guys, I'd never have thought of that on my own
Thanks everyone that's replied and helped me with all this, you're a bunch of absolute stars

YoungBlueEyes

Update - Today is probate + 6 months, so that's something Although just to be ultra cautious I'm mindful that something could have been started and be winging it's way to me in the post, yet to arrive. Very unlikely though I think.

They wrote (emailed) my specialist wills solic, demanding the last 2 years of bank statements from dad's account. Also they (well no2 really) also wanted receipts for all extras dad had paid for eg household bills inc food, haircuts, literally every penny accounted for. I took all my paperwork into him - stuff me and 4 had paid from his account/the estate - probate, memorial stone etc - and bank statements for the last 2 years. He sorted it all out into a really neat table of incomings and outgoings and sent all 3 a copy in the post. The accompanying letter said that I now consider this matter closed, and that if they have any further issues their solic may address the co-executors directly. It also pointed out that as the estate has been distributed they'd have to shell out for our legal bill

In reply 2 sent a great long angry bullish email (which solic forwarded to me), full of vitriol and lies. If it wasn't so identifiable I'd put it up on here so you could all see what I'm up against! The last line is that if I don't provide what they're asking for they will refer the matter to the police and a forensic account.

I've heard nothing so far, and that was 2 months ago.

Aaaaaand back to who blinks first..... again.