Received my Notice to Keeper :-D

Richard_E_C

The company is UKPC and they have done everything correctly although I think their signage is bad (see below). I wish to check my understanding of a few points. I have the money to pay the £100 but will let this to run it's course as an experiment. When it is all said and done I'll share how it went here.

Yes I have read all the sticky's, I just want clarification on some points please.

A) Do they have to take me to court before any one can start chasing me and showing up at my door?
2) Because of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms Act 2012 I will be liable for the charge when it goes of to court, does this mean they do not have to prove who was driving? (they don't know who was driving)
3) If it goes to court and does not go my way what do you think the final bill will be?
4) I have not appealed the ticket, is it too late? (it would have required me to say I was driving)
5) Should I just wait for the court summons?
6) I live on the isle of wight, can they make me go to a mainland court?


Many thanks,
Richard e Collins.

The_Deep

UKPC are fraudsters, read this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

Also, to get a taste of how these companies scam the unwary, watch this video

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and write a robust letter of complaint to your MP. Let us rid ourselves of the parasitic companies.

Coupon-mad

A) Do they have to take me to court before any one can start chasing me and showing up at my door?

Yes, they would have to win in court then you refuse to pay! Not going to happen.

2) Because of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms Act 2012 I will be liable for the charge when it goes of to court, does this mean they do not have to prove who was driving? (they don't know who was driving)

They do not have to prove who was driving, if they complied with the POFA when serving the NTK (wording and deadlines).

3) If it goes to court and does not go my way what do you think the final bill will be?

Only a couple of people on pepipoo and here lost in 2017, hundreds won. But people who lose, normally get told to pay between £150 - £200.

4) I have not appealed the ticket, is it too late? (it would have required me to say I was driving)

Not too late, and an appeal does not need you to say who was driving; the keeper should have appealed the windscreen PCN, like we advise. Do that now, online, as 'registered keeper'.

5) Should I just wait for the court summons?

There is no court summons, it's not a criminal thing. You are not 'summoned' to court.

I think if I have a sympathetic magistrate

It doesn't go to Magistrates' Court! Just a small claim, in a room with an Judge at a table deciding the case. A person with VF is protected under the Equality Act 2010, and and the case would NOT be lost by you.

6) I live on the isle of wight, can they make me go to a mainland court?

Yes but if you win they will be liable for your costs, loss of leave/salary, and travel.

I have cystic fibrosis and because of issues with my tummy I have to drink more water than a normal person may. This is why I needed the loo. The clause for not leaving the site was not clear and I did not know about it but their signage is large and for all but this clause visible from the driving seat.

They have breached the Equality Act 2010 then, by having a policy that does not make a reasonable adjustment for the disabled population at large. You are considered disabled under the EA definition and the reason for popping to the toilet was directly caused by your condition and needs.

I reckon you should write as keeper, appealing the PCN and saying that you were an occupant of the car and (explain your CF and your regular water/toileting needs).

Include the receipt for the year planner but say there is no evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site', however it is true that your medical condition caused you to need to visit the toilet and this is covered by the reasonable adjustments duty on UKPC as a Service Provider. UKPC cannot charge a person with CF for using the toilet when shopping, and would have no 'legitimate interest' allowing them to override their legal duty and your protected characteristics within the Equality Act.

Ask for their evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site' and their evidence as to who was driving.

Now URGENTLY EDIT OUT half the stuff you wrote above, remove ALL sentences about who parked and what the driver did, and who the driver was.

waamo

There seems to be a County Court on the IoW. If they file papers it may well get moved to your local county court.

I can't see the ppc being very keen on that.

Richard_E_C

Thank you for the advice, I will appeal the PCN.

Richard_E_C

Appeal successful. Received letter on the 19th March. They have apologised for the giving me the ticket.

Thank you everyone for help with putting my side of what happened accurately and achieving this outcome.

Redx

well done

hopefully you are noiw fully informed of this topic and how it affects you , especially as CM put you straight on quite a few misconceptions regarding civil cases and the laws involved

best wishes and we hope NEVER to see you again, unless you are advising others on here of course

Umkomaas

Excellent result Richard. :T

On which point do you believe the appeal was won please? Your information will give us contemporaneous understanding as to what tips the balance with a direct appeal to UKPC.

The more intelligence we have about individual PPCs, the better we can help others fight their charges.

Coupon-mad

If you wrote the appeal suggested (below) I reckon it will have been cancelled partly due to the Equality Act, with UKPC wanting to be able to show the BPA that they can 'play nicely' and do cancel such PCNs, and partly because they had no evidence of the driver 'leaving the site' and could not have won at POPLA!

I reckon you should write as keeper, appealing the PCN and saying that you were an occupant of the car and (explain your CF and your regular water/toileting needs).

Include the receipt for the year planner but say there is no evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site', however it is true that your medical condition caused you to need to visit the toilet and this is covered by the reasonable adjustments duty on UKPC as a Service Provider. UKPC cannot charge a person with CF for using the toilet when shopping, and would have no 'legitimate interest' allowing them to override their legal duty and your protected characteristics within the Equality Act.

Ask for their evidence that all occupants of the car 'left the site' and their evidence as to who was driving.