Employee has doctors certicficate but very fit

Hoblands

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

Not sure if anyone can offer me some advice? I run a small maintenance / cleaning company employing 4 full time staff. One of whom has been off for the past 3 weeks with a medical (physical) problem and I've been paying him the compulsory sick pay as per my legal obligations. He has the relevant doctors certificate but I've become aware that whilst not working he still plays in a weekend 5-aside football league, goes out for bike rides and visits the pub most evenings. As the sick pay comes out of my own pocket and is having an impact on my own income this is concerning me somewhat. Is there anything I do?

Many thanks in advance.

Paul

pmlindyloo

Hoblands wrote: »

Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

Not sure if anyone can offer me some advice? I run a small maintenance / cleaning company employing 4 full time staff. One of whom has been off for the past 3 weeks with a medical (physical) problem and I've been paying him the compulsory sick pay as per my legal obligations. He has the relevant doctors certificate but I've become aware that whilst not working he still plays in a weekend 5-aside football league, goes out for bike rides and visits the pub most evenings. As the sick pay comes out of my own pocket and is having an impact on my own income this is concerning me somewhat. Is there anything I do?

Many thanks in advance.

Paul

A difficult one.

In general terms a fit note is usually an acceptable reason to pay sick pay.

'I have become aware' - may I ask how?

How long has this employee worked for you? Is this a recurring problem ? i.e Has this employee had lots of short term sickness? Do you have a sickness policy?

It is difficult because you have no way of knowing why the doctor issued a fit note for such a long period of time.

Do you have a good relationship with this employee? Would it be appropriate to telephone and see 'how things are going?/Anything I can do to help?' type thing.

SSP is not a lot of money so unless he has access to other money I find it hard to imagine why anyone would 'fake an illness'. Perhaps he is getting better and trying out physical activities to see if his 'physical condition' is fully healed?

PS Might be worth posting on the Employment forum:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=141

huckster

From what I have been told, an employer can ignore a Doctors sick note, if they assess that the employee is fit for work. BUT to be able to ignore the sick note, the employers would need to provide some evidence to support their decision.

I have seen employers confront employees in a similar situation and the employee has withdrawn the sick note, by declaring that they are now fit for work. Obviously if the illness is hidden e.g mental health an employer would need to be very careful before they ignored a sick note.

In the employement forum, there are HR law experts who will know more.

Hoblands

Many thanks for replies. The employee has been with me for a little over a year and this the first time he's taken sick leave. I have him as a 'friend' on Facebook so see all of his recent updates and photos (I rarely post on my timeline so suspect he's forgotten I can see what he's up to!)

After pension, NI and other compulsory benefits are taken in to account I only make circa £100 - £150 per week profit from each staff member so can't afford a sick pay scheme on top of the amount legally required to pay.

Kind regards
Paul

pmlindyloo

Interesting link:

https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/trouble-work/employer-problems/my-employer-has-warned-me-about-my-level-sickness-absence

Still think you need to be very careful..........................

[Deleted User]

I would have thought, if the employee has worked for such a short time you could dismiss him for any reason. But perhaps it might be worth a short appt with an employment specialist solicitor before doing this.

A lot depends on why he is off sick, as has been stated. If he is claiming a physical problem and you can see he is playing football, then obviously that is going to call you to question the diagnosis. If stress/depression then possibly not. As has already been mentioned.

borkid

pmlindyloo wrote: »

A difficult one.

In general terms a fit note is usually an acceptable reason to pay sick pay.

'I have become aware' - may I ask how?

How long has this employee worked for you? Is this a recurring problem ? i.e Has this employee had lots of short term sickness? Do you have a sickness policy?

It is difficult because you have no way of knowing why the doctor issued a fit note for such a long period of time.

Do you have a good relationship with this employee? Would it be appropriate to telephone and see 'how things are going?/Anything I can do to help?' type thing.

SSP is not a lot of money so unless he has access to other money I find it hard to imagine why anyone would 'fake an illness'. Perhaps he is getting better and trying out physical activities to see if his 'physical condition' is fully healed?

PS Might be worth posting on the Employment forum:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=141

Possibly its all changed but when myOH was incharge of payroll the sick notes had the reason on them.

TELLIT01

pmlindyloo wrote: »

A difficult one.

In general terms a fit note is usually an acceptable reason to pay sick pay.

It is difficult because you have no way of knowing why the doctor issued a fit note for such a long period of time.

The fit note will state the nature of the illness. If the employee has been off for 3 weeks and can self-certificate for the first week. The OP hasn't stated how long the fit note is for, so I'm not clear where the 'such a long period of time'. When I worked on ESA we would only accept fit notes for a maximum 3 months at a time until the claimant had been off work for 6 months, so even if the fit note is for 4 weeks it's far from unusual.

As the OP has legitimate access to show that the employee has been playing sport when he supposedly has a 'physical incapacity' I don't think it would be unreasonable for the OP to ask for an explanation.
If that isn't forthcoming, or the explanation isn't accepted, the employee has little in the way of comeback if the OP chooses to terminate their employment.

GlasweJen

What!!!8217;s the physical illness and does playing football contradict it or could it help the recovery? For example it used to be that you!!!8217;d be told to lie fiat with a sore back but OH was recently told by his GP that he should be exercising his back as much as he can within reason and a game of 5s with the lads would fit the bill, as would cycling.

Hoblands

Without going in to graphic detail, the reason given on the sick note is for an injury in an intimate area! The reason for the length of time is that the appointment to see a specialist isn't until 19th February (for whatever reason) and then, presumably a new Dr's certificate will be issued pending any operation needed. I'm not disputing that the employee has a problem but a little put out that he seems to be able to do almost any activity apart from working!

Thanks again for replies. I'll be pursuing this further tomorrow and will post an update...

Tigsteroonie

Hoblands wrote: »

Without going in to graphic detail, the reason given on the sick note is for an injury in an intimate area!

And he's going out cycling? :eek: