Constructive Dismissal advice.

longleggedhair

I am asking for advice for a friend who is really clueless any their work rights and has been put in a situation which is really awful.

She has worked for their employer for two years, it sounds like a rather combative environment. Some months ago she was verbally abused by a colleague, which included comments that are classed as a hate crime. This individual admitted they had made the comments and my friend reported the matter to their employer and the police. The employer have the person a warning, and expected my friend to continue working with someone who had committed what was a criminal offence.

This is where it gets interesting. My friend was accused of insubordination by her manager for speaking to the police, and low and behold she was on her first shift back after the incident suspended due to a raft of allegations against her a mistake she was accused of on that shift (despite never having a single problem at work in the previous two years). Management were clearly very angry she had taken the matter to the police.

On my advice, and also due to the stress caused by the whole situation she has been on sick leave since.

I'm inclined to advise her to take the company to tribunal, as she fears she will not get a fair hearing from the company and will be dismissed as "punishment". I personally think she has nothing to gain from cooperating with their phantom investigation and resign on the basis of a constructive dismissal.

Advice please guys! Thanks.

nicechap

Let me play back what you have said.

Employer disciplined a colleague for verbally abusing your friend. (so that matter is dealt with.)

Your friend returned to work and made a mistake serious enough to be suspended.

You have advised them not to cooperate with the investigation, to resign and take the company to tribunal.

Your friend hasn't made any complaint or let the company know what basis she will be resigning, so no chance to address those issues.

I presume you will bankroll your friend for the thousands of pounds of legal costs the firm will ask for when your friend loses at tribunal?

Takeaway_Addict

longleggedhair wrote: »

I am asking for advice for a friend who is really clueless any their work rights and has been put in a situation which is really awful.

She has worked for their employer for two years, it sounds like a rather combative environment. Some months ago she was verbally abused by a colleague, which included comments that are classed as a hate crime. This individual admitted they had made the comments and my friend reported the matter to their employer and the police. The employer have the person a warning, and expected my friend to continue working with someone who had committed what was a criminal offence.

This is where it gets interesting. My friend was accused of insubordination by her manager for speaking to the police, and low and behold she was on her first shift back after the incident suspended due to a raft of allegations against her a mistake she was accused of on that shift (despite never having a single problem at work in the previous two years). Management were clearly very angry she had taken the matter to the police.

On my advice, and also due to the stress caused by the whole situation she has been on sick leave since.

I'm inclined to advise her to take the company to tribunal, as she fears she will not get a fair hearing from the company and will be dismissed as "punishment". I personally think she has nothing to gain from cooperating with their phantom investigation and resign on the basis of a constructive dismissal.

Advice please guys! Thanks.

Did the person get prosecuted by the police then?

Do you know how hard constructive dismissal is to prove?

Lioness_Twinkletoes

longleggedhair wrote: »

I am asking for advice for a friend who is really clueless any their work rights and has been put in a situation which is really awful.

She has worked for their employer for two years, it sounds like a rather combative environment. Some months ago she was verbally abused by a colleague, which included comments that are classed as a hate crime. This individual admitted they had made the comments and my friend reported the matter to their employer and the police. The employer have the person a warning, and expected my friend to continue working with someone who had committed what was a criminal offence.

This is where it gets interesting. My friend was accused of insubordination by her manager for speaking to the police, and low and behold she was on her first shift back after the incident suspended due to a raft of allegations against her a mistake she was accused of on that shift (despite never having a single problem at work in the previous two years). Management were clearly very angry she had taken the matter to the police.

On my advice, and also due to the stress caused by the whole situation she has been on sick leave since.

I'm inclined to advise her to take the company to tribunal, as she fears she will not get a fair hearing from the company and will be dismissed as "punishment". I personally think she has nothing to gain from cooperating with their phantom investigation and resign on the basis of a constructive dismissal.

Advice please guys! Thanks.

Stop, for the love of God, advising your friend. S/he needs advice from someone who actually knows what they are talking about - you know, like a lawyer.

sangie595

longleggedhair wrote: »

I am asking for advice for a friend who is really clueless any their work rights and has been put in a situation which is really awful.

She has worked for their employer for two years, it sounds like a rather combative environment. Some months ago she was verbally abused by a colleague, which included comments that are classed as a hate crime. This individual admitted they had made the comments and my friend reported the matter to their employer and the police. The employer have the person a warning, and expected my friend to continue working with someone who had committed what was a criminal offence.

This is where it gets interesting. My friend was accused of insubordination by her manager for speaking to the police, and low and behold she was on her first shift back after the incident suspended due to a raft of allegations against her a mistake she was accused of on that shift (despite never having a single problem at work in the previous two years). Management were clearly very angry she had taken the matter to the police.

On my advice, and also due to the stress caused by the whole situation she has been on sick leave since.

I'm inclined to advise her to take the company to tribunal, as she fears she will not get a fair hearing from the company and will be dismissed as "punishment". I personally think she has nothing to gain from cooperating with their phantom investigation and resign on the basis of a constructive dismissal.

Advice please guys! Thanks.

I'm afraid you are also clueless as to employment rights, and should not be advising anyone.

She had no case. She reported an incident to her employer, and it was dealt with. Situation over. She doesn't get to tell her employer who she will and won't work with. So there's nothing interesting there. Not remotely interesting.

She returned to work. Why was she not at work? You suggest that she was off for quite some time, months perhaps...?

She returned to work and allegations are made against her. Several, from the sounds of it. So did she do whatever she is accused of?

She doesn't get too choose whether it's a fair hearing or not. She goes through the hearing, and if necessary the appeal; and at the end of all that, if she had a case she then goes to a tribunal.

Why did you advise her to go off sick (again?). That is very poor advice. She was suspended anyway so it wasn't necessary, but now she is clocking up lots more sick leave which, in itself would be potentially cause to dismiss! She has just very nicely played right into their hands. On your advice. They can leave her on sick leave for as long as they want and then dismiss her on capacity.

There is not a shred of evidence to substantiate constructive unfair dismissal here.

lulu650

longleggedhair wrote: »

....I'm inclined to advise her to take the company to tribunal, as she fears she will not get a fair hearing from the company and will be dismissed as "punishment". I personally think she has nothing to gain from cooperating with their phantom investigation and resign on the basis of a constructive dismissal.....

You want to advise her to leave her job with no other job to go to and probably no access to JSA for almost 6 months?

Constructive dismissal means an employee resigns because essentially the employer has breached the contract so seriously there is no alternative other than to resign. What exactly is the basis for claiming constructive dismissal here?

Gavin83

When you say she!!!8217;s been working there 2 years can you be more exact?

So the mistake on her shift back, what was it and did she do it?

A tribunal is a no go as the company haven!!!8217;t done anything wrong. They!!!8217;ve followed a (seemingly fair) disciplinary procedure for the other employee and she!!!8217;s left on a theory, something that hasn!!!8217;t happened yet. You can!!!8217;t claim constructive dismissal because you think they won!!!8217;t treat you fairly in a disciplinary.

FBaby

My friend was accused of insubordination by her manager for speaking to the police

Really?Officially, in writing with evidence? Because it sounds like you friends is making assumptions that the reasons for a suspension is related to that event, and yes, it is a bit of a coincidence, but what evidence does she have that this is the case beyond circumstantial?

Without anything in writing and without her following the internal process (ie. raising a grievance against the manager who supposedly told her she had no right to call the police or bullying if she feels she is being accused of a number of faults she clearly hasn't committed), she has no chance to prove her case.

sangie595

FBaby wrote: »

Really?Officially, in writing with evidence? Because it sounds like you friends is making assumptions that the reasons for a suspension is related to that event, and yes, it is a bit of a coincidence, but what evidence does she have that this is the case beyond circumstantial?

Without anything in writing and without her following the internal process (ie. raising a grievance against the manager who supposedly told her she had no right to call the police or bullying if she feels she is being accused of a number of faults she clearly hasn't committed), she has no chance to prove her case.

And it's a bit dicey anyway. It depends on exactly what the manager said too. Insubordination isn't a word that springs to most lips easily. So I suspect that even if this happened, that wasn't the phrase used (unless she's in the armed forces, in which case employment law isn't of much help). We currently have no actual evidence that a criminal offence was committed - just because I call the police doesn't make something a criminal offence. The OP has been asked what action the police took, but hasn't yet told us. And few employers will look kindly on the police rolling up to the workplace to investigate their employees for a problem at work, when there is a grievance procedure to follow.

It is entirely possible that the manager and/or employer didn't take kindly to having the police called in to what appears to be a squabble between the staff. But that doesn't mean that the allegations (plural - it always interests me when there are multiple allegations) are not true. And as for a "fair hearing", whatever one of those is - no hearing is fair from the point of view of the person in the hot seat. And guess what OP - it doesn't have to be fair either. It only has to be legally fair, and that is a whole different ball game.

One thing that I have often observed - when people are off sick, especially for lengthy periods, it is amazing the correlation between that and a "raft of allegations" coming forward. And that doesn't mean that they are untrue. It's often the case that things come to light when you aren't there that might never see the light of day if you hadn't been off. And having a disciplinary record that is clear for 2 years or 20 has no relevance to anything - there is always a first.

The other think that I'd observe is that sometimes, it isn't the fact that you haven't done anything wrong. Sometimes it is the case that you haven't annoyed your employer enough for them to go looking for what you did wrong. Few of us could pass the test of being so perfect that our employer couldn't find something to hang us for if they wanted to. Most of the time that is something the employer cannot be arsed doing - more trouble than it is worth. But if they get really annoyed, they are prone to look. That doesn't mean it's unfair when they find something!

ohreally

nicechap wrote: »

I presume you will bankroll your friend for the thousands of pounds of legal costs the firm will ask for when your friend loses at tribunal?

Between their gold britania coins, investments and underpinned by PIP, that could be possible.

Cheeky_Monkey

With friends like you OP, she really doesn't need any enemies