House Purchase - Unadopted Road Help

lovehols

The main use would be the farm vehicles. There are three cottages before the bridge and only the house we are hoping to buy, the lock cottage (empty currently, was rented out previously and the farm). So there are only three properties over the bridge.

DaftyDuck

I don't doubt the likelihood that the bridge will last a very long time... but there is still an added difficulty by its required use that can't be avoided.

The house in question may require the bridge for access - I have no knowledge the farm suffers likewise. It may have no need for the bridge whatsoever. If it doesn't, there's a real problem. If it does, there's still a sea of pain.

The bridge was never (?) built for motor traffic: I'm far from sure repair and rebuild need cover that use... It might, or not... but it would be an expensive legal battle, and time consuming, to force it. Not a battle I'd care to fight - or fund!

However, every problem has its price, and the house may well be worth it, and priced accordingly.

OP. Does the farm absolutely require the bridge? No other access whatsoever? None possible?

lovehols

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I don't doubt the likelihood that the bridge will last a very long time... but there is still an added difficulty by its required use that can't be avoided.

The house in question may require the bridge for access - I have no knowledge the farm suffers likewise. It may have no need for the bridge whatsoever. If it doesn't, there's a real problem. If it does, there's still a sea of pain.

The bridge was never (?) built for motor traffic: I'm far from sure repair and rebuild need cover that use... It might, or not... but it would be an expensive legal battle, and time consuming, to force it. Not a battle I'd care to fight - or fund!

However, every problem has its price, and the house may well be worth it, and priced accordingly.

OP. Does the farm absolutely require the bridge? No other access whatsoever? None possible?

Yes absolutely the farm needs the bridge. There is no other way of accessing it, driving tractors down it etc as it is the other side of the canal! There is no way of crossing the canal without the bridge and i can't see any other route. Not to mention milking and harvesting. I know our surveyor had historic maps of the property which he viewed before the house was built so I'm going to see if he can see anything with the farm.

There is actually bridge work due to go on imminently on that bridge and a section of the canal and bridges nearby, likely ready for the busy canal season. 'm going to speak to the Canals and Waterways tomorrow though I've emailed them already.

DaftyDuck

I'll take your word for it, but it's the other side of the canal... from what? What's beyond the canal, beyond the farm? Fields? Or a river and railway?

Happy to believe the farm does require the bridge but, me, I'd want absolute certainty it could not possibly manage without. Being beyond the canal doesn't mean no access from the far side.

EachPenny

DaftyDuck wrote: »

...The house in question may require the bridge for access - I have no knowledge the farm suffers likewise. It may have no need for the bridge whatsoever. If it doesn't, there's a real problem. If it does, there's still a sea of pain.

The bridge was never (?) built for motor traffic: I'm far from sure repair and rebuild need cover that use... It might, or not... but it would be an expensive legal battle, and time consuming, to force it. Not a battle I'd care to fight - or fund!...

If it is an accommodation bridge, which is what it sounds like, then it has to be maintained/reconstructed to continue to provide the functionality it was originally provided for. So if it was needed for the purpose of maintaining the farmer's access to the farm for farming purposes then that is what has to be maintained. The change from horsedrawn equipment to motorised vehicles is irrelevant if these vehicles are part of the farming operation.

The Act authorising the construction of the canal almost certainly wouldn't have foreseen the later development of motor vehicles, and therefore would be unable to specify whether or not the bridge could be used by them. In the absence of a provision banning the use of motor vehicles, then it would be for the canal company to demonstrate to a Court, if challenged, that it did not need to provide for the reasonable use of motor vehicles to access the farm (and/or other land?). On this the law is weighted towards the landowner(s) benefitting from the protection of the original Act.

Assuming it was possible, somehow, for the farm to have an alternative access route then the canal company would be liable for the costs of providing this alternative route. Say it involved a new track running for half a mile across the farmers land to another road. The farmer would be entitled to compensation for the loss of productive use of the land the new track is constructed on plus the canal company would have to pay for the actual construction cost. The cost of an alternative route could therefore add up to far more than the cost of repairing/strengthening the bridge, and possibly more than the cost of replacing it completely.

The OP should know where the nearest road is on the farm side of the canal, and also if there are any features such as rivers or railways that would prevent an alternative route being a practical solution.

But as mentioned before, I would think the probability of the bridge becoming unsuitable for use by cars to be very low.

The far more important issue is whether the OP can get from the public road to the bridge.

lovehols

Well, we do have some news. I had sent lots of emails. I'd managed to get in touch with the neighbours the other side of the canal (the cottages) via email (one of them has a business) who then emailed their neighbour sober have 'spoken' to all neighbours who have been more than helpful sending me copies of their deeds etc.

One of them has lived there over 25 years and offered to sign a declaration concerning access (up to the bridge as they don't go over it). We also had information from them saying the farm does fill in potholes and such regularly so it doesn't cause problems to the farm vehicles.

Concerning the bridleway, I got in touch with the council and got information on when permission was given for the property which was in 1975 and included vehicle access (a drive was put in from the lane). I couldn't be sent copies due to copyright and the plans and information was on Microfiche so I have an appointment to review these on Monday. I expressed concern on how planning was passed re the Bridleway and she passed my query on and I've just had this off the council:

The access to the property from the A*** has a legally recorded public bridleway running along it.! It has been recorded since the first Definitive Map of public rights of way became a legal document in 1958 and has not been altered since that time.! It runs easterly to the A*** and is numbered *** on the legal document.!
!
Bridleway *** is a public right of way for use by walkers, cyclists and horse riders.! The bridleway may not be used by the general public in a vehicle as this would constitute an offence under the Road Traffic Act.! However, from the information you have provided, you have demonstrated that you have private vehicular rights along the route to access your property.! Public and private rights can, and often do, co-exist.! Many access drives throughout the county are also designated public footpaths or bridleways, for example.! The Council, as Highway Authority, is responsible for the surface maintenance of the route up to a standard suitable for its public use and to keep it clear of any obstructions so that it may be used at all times by the public on foot, bicycle or horseback.! Any higher standard of surface for private usage !(such as tarmac surfacing, for example) is the responsibility of those with private vehicular access rights.! Any overhanging vegetation onto the public bridleway or maintenance of hedges or fences bordering the route are also the responsibility of the landowner/s.!
!

So far some good news. Obviously we still don't know who owns the lane and we do have the indemnity policy. In the interim the Canals and Waterways have been in touch and are getting information from estates regarding the bridge.

I feel pretty proud of myself and thank you to those that gave me information to ask or clarify.

lovehols

Oh and the Canal and River trust have confirmed whilst they don't own the lane they do own the bridge.

EachPenny

lovehols wrote: »

However, from the information you have provided, you have demonstrated that you have private vehicular rights along the route to access your property. Public and private rights can, and often do, co-exist.

As I suspected, that was going to be the key to the bridleway issue.

However, as far as I can see you still don't have proof of a private right of vehicular access - the planning consent for the driveway is a powerful indicator, but I think you'd need more than that if the farmer decided to try and stop people using the track.

Identifying the owner of the land the track runs over (and seeing the deeds if possible) would appear to be the next move.

lovehols

EachPenny wrote: »

As I suspected, that was going to be the key to the bridleway issue.

However, as far as I can see you still don't have proof of a private right of vehicular access - the planning consent for the driveway is a powerful indicator, but I think you'd need more than that if the farmer decided to try and stop people using the track.

Identifying the owner of the land the track runs over (and seeing the deeds if possible) would appear to be the next move.

Yes, this is the next issue and I'm hoping on Monday when I view the Microfiche that there may be some information historically.

One of the neighbours confirmed they when they bought their house their solicitors raised similar queries and an owner could not be found (which makes me think it isn't the farm despite what the seller says who is only dealing with it as executor). They told me they have an indemnity policy in the event of said owner coming forward.

DaftyDuck

OP. Brilliant bit of DIY research. Sounds like you are close to having all the information for an informed decision at minimal cost.

To me, the most important information appears to be that your potential neighbours appear to be helpful, friendly, and welcoming. That, for a start, is a huge find.

Don't pass any of your found information to the estate agent: they might "share" it!