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Putting the UK pension system in context?
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Milarky
Posts: 6,356 Forumite


I don't want to start a slagging debate between Edinvestor and dunstonh here but as a matter of curiosity - and to put it into context - is the UK the only country to actually have 'compulsory annuitization' (CompAnn) rules? The examples of non-state tier pensions I have seen include
Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia
[Since 1992] 9% of salary paid by a levy on employers. This is taxed at 15% on the way in and 15% when drawn from the permitted age. Otherwise it is payable as a lump sum.
New Zealand:http://www.kiwisaver.govt.nz/
[Now] Just like the 'Personal Accounts' (PAs) coming from an employer near you..
It allows full access to savings from age 65 (see http://www.kiwisaver.govt.nz/accessing-savings/) "KiwiSaver is designed to complement NZ Super, to give people a better standard of living in retirement. Being a KiwiSaver member will not affect your eligibility for NZ Super." (This suggests exemption from 'means testing'. Will that be the case for PAs plus UK state pension I wonder?)
Singapore:http://vandine.com/cpfpaper2.htm
A 'Central Provident Fund' into which employees must pay 30% (yes, that's no typo!) until 55. They can access the funds eventually and for a range of approved purchases. Totally tax free in and out but there is reference to a 'minimum sum' which is subject to withdrawal restrictions and one of the options there is an annuity (Talks about 'by 2003' so looks a few years old)
Any other examples?
Yes, we've gone with CompAnn because we have a developed market in insurance products like these - and others haven't (possibly?) because they see no reason to 'invent the wheel' (a CompAnn market) when they don't need to. It's a shame in a way that the Gov't didn't use the innovation of PAs to at least offer the option of the cash alternative at retirement. This would allow some comparisons over time between the effectiveness of pre-existing CompAnn sector (personal pensions mostly) and a new PA one to generate net savings - what the Gov't says it is trying to bring about. Is is possible to have a developed Annuity market co-exist with savings accounts which are not tied down (because they carry the 'option') or is the Annuity Market 'threatened' by it? Would a 'mixed' system become the worst of both worlds?
Thank you for your comments
Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superannuation_in_Australia
[Since 1992] 9% of salary paid by a levy on employers. This is taxed at 15% on the way in and 15% when drawn from the permitted age. Otherwise it is payable as a lump sum.
New Zealand:http://www.kiwisaver.govt.nz/
[Now] Just like the 'Personal Accounts' (PAs) coming from an employer near you..
It allows full access to savings from age 65 (see http://www.kiwisaver.govt.nz/accessing-savings/) "KiwiSaver is designed to complement NZ Super, to give people a better standard of living in retirement. Being a KiwiSaver member will not affect your eligibility for NZ Super." (This suggests exemption from 'means testing'. Will that be the case for PAs plus UK state pension I wonder?)
Singapore:http://vandine.com/cpfpaper2.htm
A 'Central Provident Fund' into which employees must pay 30% (yes, that's no typo!) until 55. They can access the funds eventually and for a range of approved purchases. Totally tax free in and out but there is reference to a 'minimum sum' which is subject to withdrawal restrictions and one of the options there is an annuity (Talks about 'by 2003' so looks a few years old)
Any other examples?
Yes, we've gone with CompAnn because we have a developed market in insurance products like these - and others haven't (possibly?) because they see no reason to 'invent the wheel' (a CompAnn market) when they don't need to. It's a shame in a way that the Gov't didn't use the innovation of PAs to at least offer the option of the cash alternative at retirement. This would allow some comparisons over time between the effectiveness of pre-existing CompAnn sector (personal pensions mostly) and a new PA one to generate net savings - what the Gov't says it is trying to bring about. Is is possible to have a developed Annuity market co-exist with savings accounts which are not tied down (because they carry the 'option') or is the Annuity Market 'threatened' by it? Would a 'mixed' system become the worst of both worlds?
Thank you for your comments
.....under construction.... COVID is a [discontinued] scam
0
Comments
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Nobody has compulsory annuities.Even the UK has dropped them.
But that doens't mean you can take a pension in cash as a lump sum
We have various options in between, income drawdon being the main one, where a cash lump sum is available to heirs net of tax.
Australia and Canada are moving to the income drawdown idea but via incentives rather than compulsion.Trying to keep it simple...0
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