Company Sick Pay period being reduced

steve99

Hi,

I work for a multi-national IT Software Company. I joined around 2 years ago and at that time the UK company policy for sick pay was:

Length of service Sick pay payable in any period of 12 months
Less than 1 year 2 months basic pay
1 - 2 years 3 months basic pay
2 – 3 years 4 months basic pay
3 – 4 years 5 months basic pay
Over four years 6 months basic pay

This week I have been asked to approve/sign an updated UK policy that amongst other small changes has reduced the sick pay period – ‘the Company sick pay is equal to your full basic salary for a maximum of 15 days absence per calendar year (January to December)’. After this it will be payable at the SSP rate.

I spoke with HR and got told that it’s very rare that anyone takes over the 15 days anyhow and that the new policy reflects similar UK companies (not sure I believe this).

I have also found out that in our UK organisation there are a number of different contacts (depending on start date) and that this new amendment does not apply to everyone.

I always thought of this as a ‘safety net’ just in case I got
injured/had a bad car accident – possibly on company business.

Can anyone advise on what I can do?

Thanks
Steve

nimbo

Talk to your union rep.

It’s not just about accidents. What would happen if you needed treatment for a serious illness. The last thing you need to think about is being paid.

Sorry I can’t be more helpful.

steve99

Hi,

Yes - I did also mention that to HR. I brought up an example about being off with a stress related problem - this could make it worse.

No union to fall back on. They don't seem to be prevalent in many of the IT companies I have worked for tbh.

Thanks

Steve

sangie595

I can only comment on the information here - the policy itself will be much more detailed and may include discretionary terms anyway.

This is a change of contractual condition. You have a right to refuse to agree. But that won't be the end of it - I'll come back to that.

Many employers are attempting to reduce costs by limiting terms such as sickness payments. That much is true. But it isn't a safety net - it's part of your terms, just as much as pay is. You need to think about it like that.

A policy doesn't have to apply to everyone. There can be many variations in contract for many reasons.

This is a very significant drop in terms. It might not seem that today. What will it sound like if you get a diagnosis of cancer tomorrow?

That said, I'm going to be honest... There's probably very little you can do about it. You don't even need to sign the form. In law, if you continue to work then your are agreeing to the term. In order to not agree, you must in fact absolutely refuse. In writing. The employer then had two options - not change it for you, or issue you with notice and offer you a new contract with that term in it. You accept the term if you want to continue working.

If you refuse, and assuming you have two years employment, you may claim unfair dismissal. I have very little confidence that you would win on this issue. Whilst I would regard an erosion of sick pay to be serious, given the economics of today and general employment law, a tribunal almost certainly won't.

You don't mention how old you are. Whatever age you are, I can guarantee that I am older than you, and after a lifetime in the union, pretty experienced in life. So I'm going to give you some life advice... I worry about the future of younger (and not just young!) people. What you are describing here is part of the breaking of a social contract that, for decades - but not a lot longer than that - was constructed on the basis that if we worked, we would be looked after. Not particularly by employers, although some did, but by society in general. The future you face will be almost no health service, almost no pension (assuming you live long enough to claim one), and little support if you lose your job or become sick. Anyone who thinks that future has already arrived hasn't seen the writing on the wall yet.

Start planning for that today. Employers nor government will protect you. It's down to you. If you have no income due to sickness, what will you do? What is you lose your job? What if you need medical treatment? The only person who is going to be looking after these things is you.

That may seem like a digression from the question. It isn't. You are a commodity to your employer, and only have any value whilst in work. Be off sick and you lose that value. Be more expensive than someone else anywhere in the world , and you lose that value. Employers don't like paying people to be not in work. They like cutting costs they don't have to spend. You feature nowhere in their planning.

You have the right to fight this change. I have little confidence that you will win. I doubt even the union can do anything, unless their members will go on strike over this - which they probably won't. A union is a valuable investment, but they cannot do the impossible. The employer is acting legally, so it is up to the members to stop the employer. That means industrial action. I'd hope that you all support each other and go for it. In reality I doubt you are in the union, and I doubt those who are will fight anyway. Reality and hope rarely match! So plan your own protections. Start today. One of those ought to be the union - they might not always be able to do something, but they are the only people on your side, and the only lawyers on your side - when you get unfairly dismissed. It's like insurance - for an outlay monthly you get insurance for your job. But you have other things to plan for. Hopefully not one of them will happen - well, apart from getting older, which none of us can stop! But like any other insurance, it's too late to wish you'd done it when the house has burned to the ground.

sangie595

Oh. And my union - UNITE - has massive membership in IT. I'm sure some others do, but I don't know which.

Savvy_Sue

And also, what sangie didn't say, is that your employer doesn't have to recognise the union for it to be worth your while joining. Your employer doesn't have to know you've joined. And they may not care - but I know when I finished a letter by saying that I would have to take advice from my union if they insisted on pushing ahead with the changes they were proposing, the changes were put on hold and reviewed.

Google 'union finder' to work out which one might be best for you.

Nothanks

I think Unite has some tech sector too, from the Amicus days.

FYI, Sangie I totally have a crush on you. You're right about stuff in a 1984 kind of way ��

sangie595

No thanks- UNITE has a huge tech sector too. And from long before Amicus. Before that there was ASTMS - association of scientific technical and managerial staff. And there were forebears before that too. We include public sector, voluntary sector, retail, manual, aerospace... And many more. Including, believe it or not, clergy.

I'm flattered, but too old for you! I was already a union rep in 1984! But it's not hard to see where it is going. History tells us. Humans are good at repeating it. They just label it differently, and dress it up with new clothes. To know where you are going, you only need to know where you've been. Depressing really!

theoretica

I think it is still possible to get income protection insurance which would cover the shortfall. What this would cost you will give you an idea of the financial worth of this cut in terms.

agrinnall

sangie595 wrote: »

Before that there was ASTMS - association of scientific technical and managerial staff. And there were forebears before that too.

Ah, ASTMS, that's the tech union I was in back in 1984!

stuartJo1989

I have to say but your current sick pay terms seem extremely generous! But that's only because I've only ever been employed for companies which give a maximum of 4 weeks with 5+ years of service.

On the one hand I can 100% see why they'd reduce from a business perspective (that would be abused so much in the places I've worked! Hell, I'd even consider taking a few months off!).

On the other hand, very harsh on you with them changing the terms. Maybe air your grievance and see what happens? They may allow you to keep the original contract, but to be fair you'll potentially have a load of mither getting paid out on it a few months/years down the line because they'll have almost everyone else on the new contract + they could drag their heels (keep a copy of your contract + get written evidence that they will keep you on the original contract).