Empolyment Tribunal

Ozzuk

Post up the salient points, it would be useful for you as a summary for solicitors, and people can offer thoughts (not legal advice) on how strong your case is. No need to put personal identifiable info in, just the base facts.

libi

Will do today, as soon as I have a little time front of the computer.

jobbingmusician

The OP has PM'd me a few details, and, TBF, I think the case is weak on the dismissal. (But read on....) The question the court will consider is 'did the employer have reasonable grounds to believe that you did what they say you did'. And the answer to this is yes. Yes, of course the other people involved could have been lying, but it's still reasonable grounds.

However, you say almost as a throwaway comment that the company didn't follow the ACAS procedures when dismissing. What did they do?

I ask this because the other, and perhaps more important, issue that the court looks at is 'did the employer behave as a reasonable employer, and follow the law, when dismissing?'

Not following the ACAS procedures is a broad statement. What did they actually do? For example...

- did they hold an investigation, followed by a disciplinary hearing?
- did they advise you of the hearing in writing, stating clearly what the accusation was and that this might constitute gross misconduct?
- were you advised of your right to be accompanied at a disc hearing? (common trip up point for employers)
- were you advised of your right to appeal? Have you appealed?

It seems from the thread that you already know about and have used what free legal advice is out there.

I'm gonna post this on the forum (amended for confidentiality) so others can benefit from it. Don't worry - even if your employer sees it it will only underline to them what they may have done wrong, and so strengthen your case! What you have to do is to focus on the disciplinary and dismissal procedure. Have you got a copy of their policy? If not, ask for one! I'm sure there are people on the forum who can help construct a good ET case if the employer has not followed their own, or a fair, disciplinary policy.

libi

- did they hold an investigation, followed by a disciplinary hearing?
Yes , the investigation done by the same manager who done the all hearings , and also the same manager made the decision as well. The manager was warned by union rep, to involve other managers too, but the answer was the impartiality view of the case is not in danger.

- did they advise you of the hearing in writing, stating clearly what the accusation was and that this might constitute gross misconduct?
Yes, they have done it.


- were you advised of your right to be accompanied at a disc hearing? (common trip up point for employers)
My UNION rep was with me in all hearings.

- were you advised of your right to appeal? Have you appealed?
Yes, i`ve done the appeal and it has failed . Also let me mention the appeal manager has sent the other lad documents to me, and mine has sent to him. What suppose to be private and confidential.

jobbingmusician

Slightly despairing here.

NOW you tell us the Union are involved? Aaargh! There is a real risk they won't continue to support you if you are getting advice from anywhere else.

Putting that risk aside - aren't they supporting you at ET? How do they rate your chances of success? Have you asked them the specific question 'has the employer followed a fair process in dismissing me?'

Comms69

So the union and two solicitors say you don't have much chance???

libi

I think they are not strong enough to support me, so decided to not using them. Maybe that was a wrong decision.
They said i wont be dismissed, and than they said i gonna get the job back with the appeal.

libi

Comms69 wrote: »

So the union and two solicitors say you don't have much chance???

union was with me and supported me, they believed that i wont loose my job, also ensured me they gonna support me with the ET.

bugslet

Am I reading this right, that the OP is trying a tribunal based on not following correct procedure rather than wrongful dismissal?

That doesn't sound worth a lot to me, even if the tribunal decide in the OPs favour.

sangie595

On the bare bones here, I am as confident as I can be in saying the OP has no chance on unfair dismissal. The ACAS guidance (and it is guidance) was followed. There was an investigation. There was a hearing. There was some form of evidence submitted - what I don't know, but there appears to be sufficient to confirm reasonable belief on the part of the employer. There was an appeal. There was union representation. That's all it needs. The disciplinary manager being the same person as the one who investigates is not ideal - but it is lawful.

Based on these bare bones, I'm wondering what would have taken four hours to read!!!

The only question in my mind, which the OP doesn't share with us, is that did they do, and what evidence was there? If the reasonable belief is established, and the only person with that information seems to think it was, then the remaining test is "would dismissal be something any reasonable employer would consider?" - and that one is easy to justify in most cases.

I am perplexed about the comment about "the other lad". Two of you were dismissed? That would strengthen the employers position potentially - they have dealt equally with more than one involved person, whatever it was they were involved with.