JSA v PILON that isn't really PILON

rickyfixit

Hi all

Thank you in advance for reading/replying
I have had my contract terminated and my 13 weeks contractual notice is being paid in advance - however, I do not have a PILON clause in my contract. Therefore IMO this is a settlement rather than PILON (technically my contracts being breached). My question - in either event, does it affect my claim for contribution based JSA?
Also - in the conversation where I was terminated, it was explained that my region was being split into the other regions as it did not work efficiently - in the letter (which my work coach wants) it says they lost confidence on my ability to deliver - can this impact my claim?

Comms69

rickyfixit wrote: »

Hi all

Thank you in advance for reading/replying
I have had my contract terminated and my 13 weeks contractual notice is being paid in advance - however, I do not have a PILON clause in my contract. Therefore IMO this is a settlement rather than PILON (technically my contracts being breached). My question - in either event, does it affect my claim for contribution based JSA?
Also - in the conversation where I was terminated, it was explained that my region was being split into the other regions as it did not work efficiently - in the letter (which my work coach wants) it says they lost confidence on my ability to deliver - can this impact my claim?

Your contract isn't being breached. You are being paid up your notice, in advance. Consider it gardening leave if you prefer.

pmlindyloo

Comms69 wrote: »

Your contract isn't being breached. You are being paid up your notice, in advance. Consider it gardening leave if you prefer.

I am not sure that this is correct.

Have a read of this:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4540

My understanding (although I am not an expert on this matter is it depends on when your employment was terminated. Was it terminated when you received your PILON as a lump sum? Did you get a letter to say that your employment was terminated from such and such a date?

Usually if you are paid PILON then you are counted as still being employed as regards claiming JSA.

As regards whether you would be eligible for JSA then unless you have been dismissed for gross misconduct and it is a straight forward dismissal then I cannot see that you would be sanctioned.

As |I said I am not an expert. You could post on the employment forum (some experienced posters there) about the PILON being considered as a lump sum (capital for benefit purposes) in these circumstances or whether you would still be considered employed during the notice period(which would affect your JSA claim)

In the end it will be up to a decision maker to decide but it is worth getting some up front knowledge so that you can give the evidence you need to state your case.

Please read your contract carefully and also the letter you received regarding termination so you can answer any questions those on the employment forum may have.

Alternatively, are you in a union? This should be your first port of call for advice. Or you could telephone ACAS. However, some people find ACAS rather unhelpful and misinformed.

Comms69

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I am not sure that this is correct.

Have a read of this:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4540

My understanding (although I am not an expert on this matter is it depends on when your employment was terminated. Was it terminated when you received your PILON as a lump sum? Did you get a letter to say that your employment was terminated from such and such a date?

Usually if you are paid PILON then you are counted as still being employed as regards claiming JSA.

As regards whether you would be eligible for JSA then unless you have been dismissed for gross misconduct and it is a straight forward dismissal then I cannot see that you would be sanctioned.

As |I said I am not an expert. You could post on the employment forum (some experienced posters there) about the PILON being considered as a lump sum (capital for benefit purposes) in these circumstances or whether you would still be considered employed during the notice period(which would affect your JSA claim)

In the end it will be up to a decision maker to decide but it is worth getting some up front knowledge so that you can give the evidence you need to state your case.

Please read your contract carefully and also the letter you received regarding termination so you can answer any questions those on the employment forum may have.

Alternatively, are you in a union? This should be your first port of call for advice. Or you could telephone ACAS. However, some people find ACAS rather unhelpful and misinformed.

You're absolutely right, the 13 weeks as PILON means you accumulate annual leave etc.


But the payment method for that, in advance or monthly has no bearing. Any employer is free to pay the whole salary for the year upfront if they want to, most don't for obvious reasons, but nothing in law prevents it.


The OPs main argument was lack of a PILON clause, which isn't a requirement afaik. Any employer is free to not offer work. You are right that the date of effective termination is key. (as is working out if the dismissal is fair, but the OP didn't raise that point so assume it is)

rickyfixit

Hi folks

thank you for the responses, much appreciated! To clarify on a couple of points:
- I'll get paid on next pay run but was terminated Jan12th, having been briefed 3 days earlier.
- I have no PILON clause in my contract so ACAS advised it was a breach, and that I should ensure I am no worse off from the employer than if I had worked my notice, so I fought with them to ensure I got my holiday pay and pension sorted for the 13 weeks
My argument is that it isn't PILON technically, its a lump sum, and therefore as noted above, its capital. But my letter quotes being paid in lieu of notice so I think I'm on a sticky wicket...?

Good advice re posting on employment board will do that too, thank you.
:-)

pmlindyloo

Have found this:

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Facing-redundancy/Will-my-redundancy-pay-affect-my-benefits-entitlem

(A reliable website)

If you apply for JSA after your employment is terminated (hence my question about termination date) the PILON and holiday pay is not counted.

Comms69

rickyfixit wrote: »

Hi folks

thank you for the responses, much appreciated! To clarify on a couple of points:
- I'll get paid on next pay run but was terminated Jan12th, having been briefed 3 days earlier.
- I have no PILON clause in my contract so ACAS advised it was a breach, and that I should ensure I am no worse off from the employer than if I had worked my notice, so I fought with them to ensure I got my holiday pay and pension sorted for the 13 weeks
My argument is that it isn't PILON technically, its a lump sum, and therefore as noted above, its capital. But my letter quotes being paid in lieu of notice so I think I'm on a sticky wicket...?

Good advice re posting on employment board will do that too, thank you.
:-)

It is PILON though and that's the whole point. You don't need a PILON clause for it to be just that (and you are right regarding holidays etc)

rickyfixit

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Have found this:

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Facing-redundancy/Will-my-redundancy-pay-affect-my-benefits-entitlem

(A reliable website)

If you apply for JSA after your employment is terminated (hence my question about termination date) the PILON and holiday pay is not counted.

thank you - have visited the site now, and feel slightly better prepared for the challenge ahead!!