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Question for mechanically minded MSEr's.

Tao81
Tao81 Posts: 653 Forumite
A-hem.....Sorry if on wrong board?!

Diesel car starting problem - Yadi, Yadi, Ya I hear you cry! Tell us news not history, all Diesels suffer from this problem at some time in their life! :rolleyes:
Well, it goes like this - Cavalier Diesel 1.7 TD. Original glow plugs in vehicle worked without a glitch for 12 yrs!!:j Had them changed 4 yrs ago (non-Vauxhall plugs - as so hideously expensive!) and what do you know?!! Have had problems 3yrs out of past 4!!!! :mad:

I'd know how to change them for myself, as watched previous machanic check glow rate and change them 2 years running - but don't have suitable tools (He's the selfish type, and !!!!!!ed off to Turkey on retirement - Peh! :rolleyes: :rotfl: )

THEREFORE:
  1. Would I be able to purchase suitable tools or is this likely to be too expensive?
  2. How would I judge / find out which size and suitable type of wrench I would need for the job?
  3. Would I be advised to do it myself or am I just being stupid?
Only I just get really hacked off with people telling me that it is something other than the plugs; then as soon as the plugs are changed, (once I've spent much time convincing mechanic "It IS the plugs again"- Hey Presto !!Problem solved for another year, at least!!

I just hate having to go through the same old thing every time I simply want the glow plugs changed! It would be much easier (and cheaper) to be able to do for myself?!!!!
I know the glow plugs shouldn't burn out that quickly etc., etc., but the relay and the timer unit are so expensive to replace, and the last time me and the mechanic went looking for one of them we failed to find it, the Haines manual didn't help one bit as car manufacturers often mix things about!!! So I'd rather just go with plug changes!

So if you think this would be at all feasible, given info above, please advise.....Ta me lovlies :D:D
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. :A
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Comments

  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    Photo of engine bay and highlight where plugs are on car, then I'll let you know. Preferably second photo showing actual plug
  • Conor_3
    Conor_3 Posts: 6,944 Forumite
    Tis a simple thing to do.

    1) Disconnect the battery.
    2) Disconnect the nuts holding the power cable that links across all 4 of them. It'll probably be an 8mm or 10mm nut.
    3) Undo the glow plug and remove.
    4) Replacement is reverse of 1-3.

    You need nothing more complicated than a couple of spanners. Buy a Haynes manual and it'll explain how to do it all.
  • vaio
    vaio Posts: 12,287 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Get them from your local motor factor and get the spanners you need at the same time
  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    I still advise you get me/us a few photos, then I can tell you more accurately what you will need.
  • jonathon
    jonathon Posts: 760 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts
    059d_1.JPG



    you need sockets not spanners, but the big question is why you go through so many sets it might be a good idea to check the timer to make sure thay are staying hot long enough.
  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    jonathon wrote: »
    you need sockets not spanners, but the big question is why you go through so many sets it might be a good idea to check the timer to make sure thay are staying hot long enough.

    This is why a photo is better than everyone guessing, it could be like my car that sockets will be no good. on my car a deep offset ringspanner is the only way.
  • Tao81
    Tao81 Posts: 653 Forumite
    jonathon wrote: »
    you need sockets not spanners, but the big question is why you go through so many sets it might be a good idea to check the timer to make sure thay are staying hot long enough.

    Thanks guys you've all been so helpful - Here have a BIG MSE BEAR HUG each of you !!!!!!!!{XXXX}}}}....Get Ready......Squeeeeeeeze:beer: :D

    BIG NEWS IS - I'VE DONE! :j Can't believe how easy it was! Simply a matter of the right tools and not bothering to go to Halfords where, the Numbties there, sell you the wrong size plugs (which of course you don't find out until they've closed for business!!!!! Grrrrgh :mad: ) and aren't savvy enough to know how to advise on purchasing right tools for the job...Can you Adam and Eve it??!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    AnyHoo, :D With the help of a very kind neighbour managed to find a local dealer and whizzed down there this morning to purchase japanese made plugs at £6.99 + Vat (£28 for 4) not bad eh?!

    Proof will be in the pudding tomorrow morning, especially if we get another frost like last night - (that cold, it nearly drove me to put the heating on this morning!!!! Yikes :eek: But managed to resist and put a fleece on instead!)

    Car starts fine now though, so should be back to first time starts from now on, which I'm sure the starter motor will be heaving a huge sigh of relief over.
    BTW - whilst on the subject, can I ask do any of you think I will have done my starter motor any damage turning the engine over for a long time (approx 30secs in one hit) as my neighbour warned that it gets very hot if turned over for too long - He advised only turning the engine 4-5 times and then letting it cool down for quite a few minutes before having another go, what's your knowledge regarding this pls?

    Right now for the cheeky bit! ;)
    Can I pick your brains further please, Pretty please? :D

    .........I'm all fired up now! and having saved myself considerable dosh by avoiding a garage book in, I would like to move up a gear and learn how to change my oil and oil filter, so that I can save even more money because at £75 p.h garage fees it's worth getting myself a little dirty for, me thinks!
    Have been told in the past it's easy to do, but never attempted it because don't have any men around that are mechanically minded to ask and guide me if needed!!

    So what do you think,? Would I be able to take this on myself and not do any damage in the process?

    Thanks in advance for any advise. :D
    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. :A
  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    oil & filter change,

    First check your nearest "National" tyres chain fitter because they used to do a deal last year £14 "all in" oil & filter change. You can't beat that!

    Next if they don't still do it, you will want some "diesel spec" motor oil 15W - 40 any brand will do 5 litre can.

    Now you will want to look under your car engine and spot one of these (click) yours is probably like the first one - Hexagonal easy to do, but some newer cars have started doing silly ones like those shown in pictures below the first picture.

    use an 17 or 19mm ringspanner (usually) to get this effect (click) - note how far back the gush is gushing don't miss your tub!!!

    You will first need to put down sheets of cardboard or newspaper (lots) then one of these (click) - make sure you can get the bowl under the sump plug & car before starting.


    You will want a slightly warmed up engine. and position vehicle on level ground.
    What I do is first use spanner to crack the plug and undo it a little tiny bit, (make sure you know which way to pull spanner to get an anti clockwise turn for the plug!!!), then I put the bowl under and use my fingers (with bowl in position) to turn the plug out slowly, as it gets very near the end of its thread I get my arm ready to be able to pull away quickly from the subsequent gush of oil, keep turning until that last thread is released and pull quickly away and let the oil fill the bowl. Double checking that you are not spilling any. let it drip for 10 minutes. Then remove bowl wipe hole with rag, wipe plug, and replace the plug tighten with spanner fairly tight - "spanner tight".

    Now onto filter, find filter place bowl underneath and undo by hand anti-clockwise it should turn, if it doesn't you can wrap a leather belt around it one winding get one person to hold tight the "clockwise" end of the belt and you pull the other end of the belt to turn it anti clockwise - sometimes works, you can buy oil filter wrenches and oil filter "rubber strap" devices (same principle as leather belt).

    It might be a good idea before you start to try the filter to see if it will begin to unwind by hand if you can start it moving by hand you can guarantee that when you get to it you will be able to continue and get it off if it does not move you can decide what method you will use to get it off later and plan ahead accordingly - But if all of that is not working or too much hassle, you can get a 6 inch screwdriver or longer and hammer it through the oil filter (atleast 2 inches from the rubber seal end of the filter) try not to hammer it all the way through the other side. What will happen is you get through the 1st side then it will go into "empty space" (the centre of the filter) you want to hammer again into the "other side" but only a little bit, until you are just about to break through the outer skin on the other side -stop there (hence you need quite a long screwdriver to do this). There are 2 good reasons to do this

    1. You don't make two holes in filter less oil falls out and no jagged edge "exit hole" to cut your hand with.

    2. Your screw driver doesn't come out other side and jams itself against engine block thus making turning the screwdriver impossible!

    Turn oil filter using screwdriver anticlockwise. easy job done.

    ok so undo filter (messy) catch the oil, now put old filter in old cloth and put somewhere safe, wipe up engine and clean the face where the oil filter meets the engine.

    Ok remove bowl, get new filter out box. open new motor oil can, dip finger into clean oil, smear finger with oil onto the rubber on the new oil filter, just wet it all the way round not dripping with oil, just coated with oil.

    screw filter onto thread. now turn it until it touches therubber meets the face then tighten it by hand -
    do not use excessive hand force to tighten it
    do not use any tool to tighten it

    Just "hand tight" until it stops turning.
    If you overtighten it it could leak,
    if you undertighten it it will leak.

    Now read handbook and look for engine oil capacity maybe 3.5 or 4 litres, Pour into the oil filler cap on top of engine (USE A FUNNEL and put a cloth around the filler hole to catch any spillage) roughly 1/2 litre (0.5 litre) less that it recommends. Sometimes there is a window on the oil can to show how much is left in the can. Otherwise remove dipstick, clean put it back in remove it again, and check you can see oil is near the bottom mark on the dipstick - doesn't matter if it is a little bit higher than the bottom mark, i.e. if you have only put in 2 litres you won't see oil on the dipstick and you know you need to add more.

    Start engine - oil light flashes for a few seconds - let engine run until light stops flashing - if light does not stop after 1 minute stop engine.

    Let engine rest for 10 minutes. pull out dipstick wipe and put back in to the bottom, pull out again check level should be slightly low, but should be on the dipstick nonetheless.

    *note: Between the minimum mark and the maximum mark is 1 litre

    d
    i
    p
    s
    t
    i
    c
    k
    _ max
    ^
    .
    1 litre between these max and min marks.
    .
    v
    - min
    d
    i
    p
    s
    t
    i
    c
    k


    Now estimate how much oil to add to bring you up to half way between minimum and maximum. Add that amount, and re-check 10 minutes later, repeat process until level is halfway between min and max.

    Do not over fill, hence my method of under filling and then topping up slowly.

    Check sump plug is not leaking oil.
    Check filter seal is not leaking oil
    tighten if necessary. Repeat checks after driving around.


    Put paper on floor, use an old oil bottle or other screwtop container, put container on paper, use a funnel into container, carefully pour old oil into funnel slowly to fill screwtop container. Put top on container now full of oil. Leave oil bowl propped up on one corner for oil to collect in bottom corner overnight, pour remaining oil into container.

    Take container of oil to your local council civic amenity dump and ask where "oil bank" is (throw oil filter into metal skip). Or take oil & filter to rear of Halfords where they usually have an oil bank for public use. Pour oil into bank. Give old filter to Halfords mechanic.

    Job done. - any questions?
  • epninety
    epninety Posts: 563 Forumite
    Excellent post by Wig. I just wanted to add that I wouldn't punch through the oil filter except in last resort - if you're really unlucky and it won't come undone for any reason you won't be able to drive the car to get help. I'm not trying to worry you... it hasn't happened to me in 20yrs, but I have had one or two that were very tight.

    If you're going to buy a 'filter wrench', have a look at your filter first. There are wrenches that hold the filter from the side (like the strap one described by Wig) and ones that hold it from the end (with three 'legs').
    If you look first, you'll have some idea which one will work best for you - one some engines, access can be very tight.
  • Tao81
    Tao81 Posts: 653 Forumite
    WOW! WIG YOU ROCK! :cool: I'd click the Thanks button ten times over if that were possible!
    BTW - Have you ever considered writing your own instruction manual? May I be so bold as to suggest a title - 'Basic Car maintainance for idiots' - I know some male readers would feel patronised and offended (but this type really shouldn't be flicking the pages) but I do know and awful lot of Girlies (womanies) that would pay a high price for your kind of genius?!!

    What a thoroughly clean and tidy workman/woman you obviously are.... I'm well impressed :D ! You managed to cover absolutely everything!
    What particularly tickled me was where you even went to the trouble of describing exactly how to leave the bowl to drain (into one of its corners) :rotfl: pricelesss!

    Spectacular piece of literature you've produced there mate. Tell you what, there has been many a time in my life when I would have killed to have such an excellent trainer as yourself, how could anyone fail to get anything wrong under such a master instructor?!! Your communication skills are second to none.........Put it there! :beer:

    Only question left to ask is, can I do all this without putting my car up on ramps?

    Thanks a million :D:D and the pictures are massively helpful, you really did think of everything! :T Pure Genius!

    P.S. Apologies if this post sounds gushing, but am truely grateful and so there you have it!

    epninety - Have taken on board your comments - Well said! Thanks :D
    Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. :A
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