Savings Credit and Rent & Council Tax Rebates

Minxie_2

Hi, I feel as though I'm banging my head against a brick wall because I can't get the answers to my questions from the relevant Departments involved.
I'm 68 years old and in receipt of State pension of £138.62 pw and a works pension of £39.73 pw
I WAS in receipt of almost 100% Council Tax and Rent rebate.
A short while ago I was speaking to a person from our Council Welfare Rights Service who happened to be visiting the care home my Mum is in and during the conversation she said that I ought to claim Pension Credit to give me a bit of extra money to live on each week. She took my address and her department sent me the forms to fill in, I had to then return the forms to them for checking and they then forwarded them to the DWP. It also said on the forms that if I was awarded this benefit I could have my claim backdated for (I think) 2 months. (fill in the date you wish your claim to be backdated to)which I did.
I received a phone call from the DWP asking if I had any objections to them speaking to the Council regarding my claim. I had no objections.
I was awarded £6.83 SAVINGS Credit. ????
The same week I got the letter from the DWP I also got a letter from the Council saying that because my income had changed so did my Housing Benefit and Council Tax rebates. As a consequence of receiving this Savings credit I'm now £7.72 worse off on my Housing Benefit (I DID get £80.81 and now I only get £73.09) and I had to pay an extra £23 Council tax to take me to the end of this financial year.
I rang the Council to question this and was told that because my income had gone up I was entitled to LESS Council Tax and Rent rebates.
I was led to believe that the benefit I applied for wouldn't affect my Council Benefits, it would seem that that information was totally wrong, but surely you can't be awarded a bit extra money in your pension and then have the whole of it plus more taken away from you, leaving you worse off than you were before you applied.
Can anyone make sense of all this for me please. I have 21 days to appeal to the council if I think their decision is wrong.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

xylophone

Comprehensive Fact Sheet here

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs48_pension_credit_fcs.pdf

Does below on p25 apply in your case?


If you receive Housing Benefit and/or Council Tax Support from your
local authority and you receive only the Savings Credit part of PC,
you need to tell the local authority if your savings go over £16,000 –
whether or not you have an AIP. You may no longer be entitled to
Housing Benefit and/or Council Tax Support.

xylophone

2018 update amounts here

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/pension-credit/

Afraid_of_Kittens

For every £1 Savings Credit awarded Housing Benefit is reduced by 65p and Council Tax help is reduced by 20p so you get to keep just 15p of every £1 of Savings Credit awarded.

If you cancel your Pension Credit claim you will still be assumed to be in receipt of Pension Credit as you will have deliberately deprived yourself of additional income.

tboo

Minxie wrote: »

Hi, I feel as though I'm banging my head against a brick wall because I can't get the answers to my questions from the relevant Departments involved.
I'm 68 years old and in receipt of State pension of £138.62 pw and a works pension of £39.73 pw
I WAS in receipt of almost 100% Council Tax and Rent rebate.
A short while ago I was speaking to a person from our Council Welfare Rights Service who happened to be visiting the care home my Mum is in and during the conversation she said that I ought to claim Pension Credit to give me a bit of extra money to live on each week. She took my address and her department sent me the forms to fill in, I had to then return the forms to them for checking and they then forwarded them to the DWP. It also said on the forms that if I was awarded this benefit I could have my claim backdated for (I think) 2 months. (fill in the date you wish your claim to be backdated to)which I did.
I received a phone call from the DWP asking if I had any objections to them speaking to the Council regarding my claim. I had no objections.
I was awarded £6.83 SAVINGS Credit. ????
The same week I got the letter from the DWP I also got a letter from the Council saying that because my income had changed so did my Housing Benefit and Council Tax rebates. As a consequence of receiving this Savings credit I'm now £7.72 worse off on my Housing Benefit (I DID get £80.81 and now I only get £73.09) and I had to pay an extra £23 Council tax to take me to the end of this financial year.
I rang the Council to question this and was told that because my income had gone up I was entitled to LESS Council Tax and Rent rebates.
I was led to believe that the benefit I applied for wouldn't affect my Council Benefits, it would seem that that information was totally wrong, but surely you can't be awarded a bit extra money in your pension and then have the whole of it plus more taken away from you, leaving you worse off than you were before you applied.
Can anyone make sense of all this for me please. I have 21 days to appeal to the council if I think their decision is wrong.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Previously the council assessed you as a standard pensioner using income informed to them by you; the council now assess you using the income passed over from the Pension Service – which was given to them by you.
Income for a pensioner is £159.35.
Your income was
£138.62 + £39.73 = £178.35.
Income now via the pension service
£138.62 + £39.73 + £6.83 SC = £185.18.
65% of the income increase should be used = £4.43.
So you lose £4.43 against an extra income of £6.83 (SC) so £2.40 better off.
You state there is a difference of £7.72.
To get to £7.72 they are using an extra income of around £11.90 per week

Was your private pension up to date as this could be the difference

Minxie_2

xylophone,
I only have £6,600 savings and this was declared to the Council when I first applied for Council tax and Rent rebate. It's well below the maximum amount you're allowed.
tboo,
my works pension only changes in April every year, so nothing has changed with my finances until I was awarded this Pension credit.
I rang Age UK last week and the person I spoke to also said the same as you that

65% of the income increase should be used = £4.43.

I put this to the Council but the only reply I could get from them was that the amount of Rent rebate was now £73.09 because of the Savings credit.
Do you advise that I appeal to them and ask for a review of the figures ???
If so do you have any suggestions as to the wording ???
Afraid of Kittens
I rang the DWP to see if they had any information regarding my loss of Council benefits and the woman I spoke to said that I COULD cancel the award for Pension Credit but I MUST speak to the Council first. Obviously I'm not that naïve, so I disregarded her suggestion, precisely for the reason you give.

If you cancel your Pension Credit claim you will still be assumed to be in receipt of Pension Credit as you will have deliberately deprived yourself of additional income.

xylophone

You can read the full guidance on SC in the Fact sheet.

Write to the Council (take a copy and send signed for) citing the calculation provided by tboo and asking the Council to provide and explain their figures.

tboo

HI MInxie

When assessed you will have received the calculations sheets - I realise they may be hard to follow.
You will have received then before, when on SRP & a pension and then after when SC was added on to your HB/CTR claim.
Do these shed any light to the income they have added on?

When you telephoned the council did you speak to a contact centre or to the assessment team?
If it was the contact centre then unfortunately, sometimes, they aren’t knowledgeable enough to explain any discrepancies.
If it was the assessment team then really they should have explained it in more detail.

Please do contact them again either in writing or over the telephone. Or you may wish to ask Age Concern or CAB to contact them.
Ask them for a detailed explanation as to why your HB has decreased more than expected due to the small change in your income i.e. saving credit added on.
You should expect a response within 10 days.

Minxie_2

Hi tboo,
When I received the revised entitlement documents from the Council my first point of call was to their Rent Dept. via their main switchboard. I can only assume that it was the contact center I was connected to ??? because they didn't give me an explanation regarding my loss of benefits. I was just told that because I had an increase in my income I had to pay the new revised amounts.

My second point of call, because I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from the Council was their Welfare Rights Service. They asked me to forward the paperwork I'd received to them and they would check it and report back to me.
This is how it stands at the moment, I don't have the original papers until they're returned to me so I can't compare the new figures with the ones I was paying before. With hindsight I should have made copies before I sent them on.

Tomorrow I'll ring the Council again and ask for the assessment team, to see if I get a better answer from them.
I'll report back to you when I have a reply.
Many Thanks.

tboo

Hi Minxie

By all means give them a ring but as the welfare rights team are looking into it they may well say it's been dealt with.

You could insist on speaking to the assessment team supervisor.

If you do speak to them get the explanation in writing as it can be confusing listening to them explain the differences in calculations etc.

Either way you will get an answer.

Afraid_of_Kittens

Minxie wrote: »

xylophone,
I only have £6,600 savings and this was declared to the Council when I first applied for Council tax and Rent rebate. It's well below the maximum amount you're allowed.
tboo,
my works pension only changes in April every year, so nothing has changed with my finances until I was awarded this Pension credit.
I rang Age UK last week and the person I spoke to also said the same as you that

I put this to the Council but the only reply I could get from them was that the amount of Rent rebate was now £73.09 because of the Savings credit.
Do you advise that I appeal to them and ask for a review of the figures ???
If so do you have any suggestions as to the wording ???
Afraid of Kittens
I rang the DWP to see if they had any information regarding my loss of Council benefits and the woman I spoke to said that I COULD cancel the award for Pension Credit but I MUST speak to the Council first. Obviously I'm not that naïve, so I disregarded her suggestion, precisely for the reason you give.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236962/hbgm-bw2-assessment-of-income.pdf

Once they have established you have deprived yourself of income they will assume notional income.

Deprivation of income
HB Reg 42; CTB Reg 32
W2.750 Deprivation of income means that a claimant has relinquished, or transferred to another person,
an income
• that they
- have been receiving, or
- were due to receive, and
• which would have continued during the period of award of HB or CTBW.2.750

Notional income
W2.670 A person may be treated as receiving income which they have not actually received (that is,
income they are entitled to, but have not claimed). This is called notional income.
HB Reg 42; CTB Reg 32
W2.671 Notional income may be assumed in any of the following circumstances
HB Reg 42; CTB Reg 32
• deprivation of income in order to claim, or increase entitlement to, benefit
• income which would be available to the claimant if they applied for it
• income paid to a third party for specified items, eg ordinary clothing or footwear, see
Payments to, or in respect of, a third party later in this chapter
• underpayment or non-payment for a service when payment could be expected. This does
not apply to a claimant
- working for a charitable or voluntary organisation, or
- working as a volunteer when it would not be reasonable to expect payment, or
- who has volunteered as a service user for a public body
Ignore any payments for incidental expenses