Transer to SIPP - questions!

dunstonh

I am moving mine out of Aviva because they have proved themselves singularly useless. You can't even view the value of your ex FL fund on line now (you could up until about the middle of last year)

It is worth noting that your plans are Friend Life rather than Aviva. Yes Aviva have inherited their products but the Aviva systems were much better than Friends Life which itself was a mix of Friends Provident and AXA Sun Life. The old AXA Sun Life systems were creaking and suffered issues before they sold out to Friends Provident. Let alone the move to Aviva. The AXA system seemed to work one day but not the next. Or it would part work for a while and just as you were moving from page to page it would stop working.

Drawdown is not an option with Aviva.

It is but not on the existing FL plan. it requires a transfer.

I asked them for a prediction expecting to see what annuity terms they would offer, and all I got was a statement of the funds value.

No company act on that request.

ProDave

dunstonh wrote: »

It is worth noting that your plans are Friend Life rather than Aviva. Yes Aviva have inherited their products but the Aviva systems were much better than Friends Life which itself was a mix of Friends Provident and AXA Sun Life. The old AXA Sun Life systems were creaking and suffered issues before they sold out to Friends Provident. Let alone the move to Aviva. The AXA system seemed to work one day but not the next. Or it would part work for a while and just as you were moving from page to page it would stop working.


It is but not on the existing FL plan. it requires a transfer.

.

My point was, by hook or by crook, my policy is now with Aviva. You really would have thought they would have wanted to keep my custom and suggest that by moving it to another Aviva product they could offer what I wanted. But no, that does not seem to be an option on offer, hence I stand by my belief that they are a waste of space.

As for the quote I had wanted. I thought I had made it clear to the bloke I was talking to, that if draw the whole lot and pay the tax, or take an annuity were the only options they were offering, I wanted a quote for an annuity starting on my 55th birthday so I could compare that to other options. Again such a simple request was beyond them.

I really got the impression the old FL policies were something they did not want to deal with, and they would rather just offload them. They did confirm there would be no penalties to transfer it out to another provider.

dunstonh

As for the quote I had wanted. I thought I had made it clear to the bloke I was talking to, that if draw the whole lot and pay the tax, or take an annuity were the only options they were offering, I wanted a quote for an annuity starting on my 55th birthday so I could compare that to other options. Again such a simple request was beyond them.

You are asking them for something they cannot do. It is something you could do online using the Moneyadvice service pages on annuities to give you a ballpark figure (not reliable enough to use in the real world but enough to get you in the ballpark range). Or you could use an adviser. It is not within the remit of a provider to do that and they would run regulatory risks if they tried it.

The best they could do is issue an example projection to that age but the figures would be based on FCA set assumptions and not real world figures. As it happens, the annuity figure is not something you would compare as it has no impact on the pension on the accumulation stage (unless there are safeguarded benefits). It is only the projection figure for fund value that matters and you need to compare that with other providers and chances are they projection rates will be different. So, you end up needing software to compare.

Plus, assumption projections do not take into account real fund growth rates. You could have provider A giving the higher projection figure compared to provider B but provider B ending up with the best option in the real world. I am not a fan of the current projection methods and luckily advisers dont have to use them. However, providers do.

I really got the impression the old FL policies were something they did not want to deal with, and they would rather just offload them. They did confirm there would be no penalties to transfer it out to another provider.

the old FP ones (operated out of Milford) are fine. They seem to have migrated very easily to the Aviva systems. The old AXA ones (operated out of Bristol) have some that are proving problematic.

With old fashioned legacy plans, the most profitable outcome for a provider is often to offload them. Which is why so many of them have. Indeed, that is how the old AXA (Bristol) plans ended up with Friends. AXA didnt want them any more.

ProDave

dunstonh wrote: »

You are asking them for something they cannot do. It is something you could do online using the Moneyadvice service pages on annuities to give you a ballpark figure (not reliable enough to use in the real world but enough to get you in the ballpark range). Or you could use an adviser. It is not within the remit of a provider to do that and they would run regulatory risks if they tried it.

The best they could do is issue an example projection to that age but the figures would be based on FCA set assumptions and not real world figures. As it happens, the annuity figure is not something you would compare as it has no impact on the pension on the accumulation stage (unless there are safeguarded benefits). It is only the projection figure for fund value that matters and you need to compare that with other providers and chances are they projection rates will be different. So, you end up needing software to compare.

Plus, assumption projections do not take into account real fund growth rates. You could have provider A giving the higher projection figure compared to provider B but provider B ending up with the best option in the real world. I am not a fan of the current projection methods and luckily advisers dont have to use them. However, providers do.

Which just highlights the mess the pension industry is, and how rubbish annuities are.

A pension provider is holding my pot of money and they cannot tell me what pension it would give me in about 6 weeks time when I reach 55. Appalling.

At least you have confirmed beyond any shred of doubt that transferring it to a SIPP so I can make my own decisions what to do with it is absolutely the right thing to do.

dunstonh

Which just highlights the mess the pension industry is,

What mess?

and how rubbish annuities are.

They can be quite good in the right circumstances. Just more niche now.

A pension provider is holding my pot of money and they cannot tell me what pension it would give me in about 6 weeks time when I reach 55. Appalling.

Nobody can tell you that. What is the stockmarket going to do on Monday? How about Tuesday? and each and every day of whatever it is that you are investing in.

What they can do is give an example projection with a hypothetical growth rate and a hypothetical income. In a couple of weeks time, they would be able to get you an actual annuity quote of their in-house option (as you will be within 4 weeks of the date). However, it will still be an indication as the investment returns are unknown for those last 4 weeks. Plus, its rarely a good idea to buy an in-house annuity unless it has a GAR.

At least you have confirmed beyond any shred of doubt that transferring it to a SIPP so I can make my own decisions what to do with it is absolutely the right thing to do.

And your SIPP provider would not be able to answer the same questions you put to Aviva. Yes, their software will almost certainly be better. But you are going to suffer the same frustrations if you were to ask them the same things.

ProDave

All I wanted was was some idea. Yes I accept the stock market might crash and halve in value in the next 6 weeks. But surely as an example, they could have told me what annuity it would buy today, and then give the "it might change" warning?

That is the bit I found so totally appalling.

The reason I am so "down" on annuities is the last annuity prediction given by FL before the takeover, would have meant I needed to live to 95 just to get the cash value of pot out.

OldMusicGuy

ProDave wrote: »

All I wanted was was some idea. Yes I accept the stock market might crash and halve in value in the next 6 weeks. But surely as an example, they could have told me what annuity it would buy today, and then give the "it might change" warning?

You can find that very easily yourself, plenty of sites will give you an idea of what you might get from an annuity. I use this one: http://www.sharingpensions.co.uk/annuity_rates.htm
I like this one because it shows how rates have moved in recent years (and why annuities don't look good value right now).

ProDave wrote: »

The reason I am so "down" on annuities is the last annuity prediction given by FL before the takeover, would have meant I needed to live to 95 just to get the cash value of pot out.

That's why the pension freedoms are a good thing. There are so many ways of taking a DC pension these days. If you don't like the value of annuities, don't buy one. Again, there are plenty of online calculators that will help you model possible pension income using a drawdown approach, eg this one: https://www.hl.co.uk/pensions/interactive-calculators/pension-calculator.

shepht

In defence of Aviva, I received a letter today from the administrators of the company I used to work for, stating the the delay in the transfer to Old Mutual is due to my company not paying £400 employer and £275 employee contributions in 2016 'due to administration error' and 'it is quite likely these missed contributions will be paid by the sale of the company and the realisation of the assets', this will take 6 to 9 months. The pension was with Friends' Life then. If I was to transfer out now I will lose any chance of getting my £675 back. FL were the problem, not Aviva.

If anyone has any experience of 'missed payments' from companys' that have gone into administration I would appreciate any comments.

cautious_investor

Just as an aside , 3K growth in 5 mnths on a 110K SIPP seems a bit disappointing. Are you seeking to re-allocate this in the expectation of better results ?

shepht

It is the Old Mutual collection retirement account, just checked it has made just under £5000 and my husband is down as cautious, low risk investor, what sort of returns should we be expecting or looking for?