Access dilemma and (potential) dispute with neighbour

FBaby

No, its means we can't sell at a price that reflects the fair value without an unenforceable and meaningless encumberance. As I said, the coucil have said they would turn down a planning application.

So in other words, it can sell, but not at the price you want. That is YOUR problem, not that of your neighbour. The fact that the Council might have turn down a planning application, might because until an application is made, they can't say for sure that this would be the case, hence why you can't use what they say to make it an official change, is irrelevant.

Because they have exactly the same issue i.e. it impacts both our properties.

Except that it impact positively on their and negatively on yours, again, that's not their problem. Your problem is that you didn't see this issue when you chose to buy the house in the first place. Again, that's not your neighbour's fault.

What you want them to do is make your life easier and help them get a better price for your house when this could impact on them, even if the impact is not definite at this point. Why do you expect them to do you a favour that could potentially cost them later one? They are not your family or friends, they are your neighbour, they owe you nothing.

If my neighbour came to ask for a clause to be removed to suit them and them only, I would also tell them to get lost.

As it is, you don't even know for sure that this will decrease the value of the house. If it does though, that's life.

Land_Registry

It would be interesting to understand a few of the more specific details shared to date.

You refer to an agreement you were unaware of and 'rights' to use a shared driveway - can I assume the agreement does not appear on either registered title?
Or is it an agreement tied up with a right as granted/reserved over the driveway and appearing in each title?

You refer to 'plans' showing you own the bulk/all of the driveway so are they the title plans or other plans?

And if it's a shared driveway and they'e built on part if it what's the basis of fencing off your part and then denying access to a shared driveway?

I don't think the answers will solve the issues faced as there are wider ones involved. But it may help to understand the stances being taken now re the actual situation on the ground and what you each want. At the moment it reads as if there is a fair gap between the two of you and some doubt as to who has the legal upperhand.

Davesnave

Land_Registry wrote: »

You refer to 'plans' showing you own the bulk/all of the driveway so are they the title plans or other plans?

This is a question I meant to ask yesterday; the reason being that one of our neighbours waved a professionally-drawn plan at us when challenged over leaving rubbish bags close to our property.

We responded by producing a copy of their LR title plan, which told a different story. They aren't owners of the land involved; the council have part and we have the rest.

It transpired that the inaccurate plan was a drawing supplied by the developer, probably produced in good faith, but with the sort of care he lavished on the properties he built!

Marine_life

FBaby wrote: »

So in other words, it can sell, but not at the price you want. That is YOUR problem, not that of your neighbour. The fact that the Council might have turn down a planning application, might because until an application is made, they can't say for sure that this would be the case, hence why you can't use what they say to make it an official change, is irrelevant.


Except that it impact positively on their and negatively on yours, again, that's not their problem. Your problem is that you didn't see this issue when you chose to buy the house in the first place. Again, that's not your neighbour's fault.

What you want them to do is make your life easier and help them get a better price for your house when this could impact on them, even if the impact is not definite at this point. Why do you expect them to do you a favour that could potentially cost them later one? They are not your family or friends, they are your neighbour, they owe you nothing.

If my neighbour came to ask for a clause to be removed to suit them and them only, I would also tell them to get lost.

As it is, you don't even know for sure that this will decrease the value of the house. If it does though, that's life.

Are you my neighbour? :rotfl:

Marine_life

Land_Registry wrote: »

You refer to an agreement you were unaware of and 'rights' to use a shared driveway - can I assume the agreement does not appear on either registered title?

So now we are getting into a bit more of the detail - and I will admit this is where we were at fault - there is an attachment to the rigistered title which refers to a share right of way. We originally assumed this related to the existing shared driveway and so did not read it in detail but it in fact refers to the right to the (as yet) non-existent access. There is no agreement covering the currently shared driveway in either title.

We understand the builder originally wanted to build the access where the right of way is now but his application was declined and therefore he built the access where it is now. We can'tunderstand why the original right of way was left in place although our solicitor is trying to establish that with the builder.

Land_Registry wrote: »

You refer to 'plans' showing you own the bulk/all of the driveway so are they the title plans or other plans?

Title plans

Land_Registry wrote: »

And if it's a shared driveway and they'e built on part if it what's the basis of fencing off your part and then denying access to a shared driveway?

The property boundaries are situated 5 metres from each house. Because of the way the houses were configured ( in our view incorrectly by the builders), the driveway sits almost entirely on our half. To be clear we are happy for the arrangement to continue as is (on release of the right to build the alternate access) but it seems the only leverage we have (to bring them to the negotiating table) is to enforce our right over our land and effectively block access to their garage (without expenively reconfiguring their garden)

Land_Registry wrote: »

I do think the answers will solve the issues faced as there are wider issues involved. But it may help to understand the stances being taken now re the actual situation on the ground and what you each want. At the moment it reads as if there is a fair gap between the two if you and some doubt as to who has the legal upperhand.

I am also keen to see how it plays out. I think there is so much uncertainty around the legal agreements that for both parties it needs to be sorted out in an adult way. Within that there needs to be some give and take.

unforeseen

Do you have a copy of your neighbours plans and deeds? What do they say about this non-existent drive?

FBaby

Are you my neighbour?

Nope but I'm on his side If I was in their shoes, I wouldn't refuse for the sake of making your life miserable but for the fact that I could find that being accommodating would come to bite me as it often does.

Within that there needs to be some give and take

Not there isn't. He doesn't have to negotiate anything with you, only to stick to the law. If you can show that he is breaking the terms of the law and that means getting what you want, then good on you.

Marine_life

FBaby wrote: »

He doesn't have to negotiate anything with you

He does if I fence off my driveway so they can no longer access their garage.

tlc678910

Marine_life wrote: »

He does if I fence off my driveway so they can no longer access their garage.

I think it is you that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You could have sold your house and if this clause slightly reduced the value of your property that would have been the same as any impact when you bought the property. It is not your neighbours fault if you did not read the paperwork carefully and overpaid for your house.

If you start fencing off your shared drive you will no doubt need to dec!are a neighbour dispute that your neighbours are taking you to court to get access to the drive/garage. That will reduce the value further or make it impossible to sell until resolved.

So far there is no dispute as such. You have asked them to remove the clause. They have said only for 100k, you have declined. No dispute but you are fast creating one.

Tlc

moneyistooshorttomention

In fairness - OP did mention (earlier in the thread) that the neighbours had an equivalent amount of "driveway" space - but they chose to turn it into "garden" as such. So they were responsible for removing the "driveway" space they had (from which they landed up using OP's "driveway space").

It does sound like they have the option to remove the "garden" they put on their bit of "driveway space" and restore it to being "driveway". After all - lots of people these days are currently turning "front gardens" into parking space for their cars. So, obviously, they could do this same sort of thing in reverse - and turn that bit of "garden" back into road for themselves.