13 ways to use less plastic AND save cash

[Deleted User]

sevenhills wrote: »

Discarded fishing gear was the main culprit, according to your link that goes to the Independent.

Turtles were also found trapped in "six pack" beer can holders, plastic chairs and balloon string. I have not heard anyone proposing a ban on 'six packs' which are usually aluminum.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/plastic-pollution-turtles-dying-oceans-worldwide-tangled-waste-study-a8107616.html

This was my link, not the one you cherry picked above. https://www.google.co.uk /search?q=is+plastic+endangering+turtles&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=NB9rWo-YOufv8AefkLaYDQThere are lots of links there, some talking about plastic bags being mistaken for food. Im not really sure why you are arguing the odds, I thought this post was about reducing plastic and we were all on the same page. With regard to the six pack, they are not referring to the tins, they are referring to the plastic at the top that holds them together - these things https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=plastic+6+pack+holder&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwirmK C8-vfYAhVhIcAKHQMRAW8Q_AUICygC&biw=1365&bih=696#imgrc =JFLXfK0-znuRaM:

sevenhills

Save_Dosh wrote: »

Im not really sure why you are arguing the odds, I thought this post was about reducing plastic and we were all on the same page.

Because people are like sheep, and they just follow each other without thinking.

If a plastic reduction makes any difference, it needs to be massive; which will lead to more things being made from paper/wood/trees.

We already have a problem with deforestation, we need to thread carefully.
I dont accept that turtles are in decline because of plastic, it may be responsible for some unfortunate deaths.

In 2010, a study conducted by Duke University reported data on marine turtle bycatch for the past 18 years. It showed approximately 85,000 turtles were reported as captured. The study however, only took data from 1% of the total fishing fleets in the ocean. This means that most likely the numbers from those 18 years were in the millions.

http://www.seaturtleinc.org/rehabilitation/threats-to-sea-turtles/

[Deleted User]

sevenhills wrote: »

Because people are like sheep, and they just follow each other without thinking.

If a plastic reduction makes any difference, it needs to be massive; which will lead to more things being made from paper/wood/trees.

We already have a problem with deforestation, we need to thread carefully.

I'm not a sheep. Plastic reduction IS becoming massive. Most of the major supermarkets are talking about reducing 'POINTLESS' packaging. It's not about replacing it with paper. There are lots of inventions coming on the market for bio-degradeable bottles, edible bottles, etc. The biggest threat to deforestation is crops grown for animal fodder, so people can eat meat. Anyway, no offence, I'm done talking with you. https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/supermarkets-plan-reduce-plastic-pointless-packaging/

Ben84

minislim wrote: »

a simple way to sort part of this problem is to revert back to glass bottles like we used to get things in.

Glass is infinitely recyclable, made from abundant sand, and it's awful for the environment. Compared to plastic or card cartons, glass is exceptionally heavy - resulting in the use of a large amount of material - a material which must be melted and formed at very high temperatures, the result being much higher energy consumption. It's also bulky to package thing in and rarely comes in sizes greater than 1-litre, so it will reduce the amount that can be transported per space unit, and adds more weight to the vehicle, both of which cause it to consume more fuel and emit more pollution per unit of liquid carried.

Going back to glass is a popular idea, but it's a bad idea. I actively avoid glass as much as possible, it's pretty much the hummer of the packaging options. If you're going to drink soft drinks, concentrates you combined with tap water win easily over pre-mixed drinks. For everything else, what I've seen shows tetrapak and card cartons are best, followed by plastic. Bigger containers have an economy of scale, containing more liquid per packaging weight as their volume goes up - so choosing the bigger size containers tends to come with benefits too.

Glass looks eco-friendly because it's easy to recycle, but disposal is one aspect of something's environmental impact, not a full picture. Environmental choices focused only on disposal and recycling options can go badly wrong if they encourage people to use bulky, high energy materials like glass over lighter, less energy intensive materials. Unfortunately, a lot of articles and even environmental groups focus on disposal as their main point, despite the limitations of doing this.

I also wouldn't stress over the ocean plastic issue when choosing packaging. It's not an issue unless your rubbish is being released in to the sea - something I assume you don't do, and it's unlikely your local rubbish collection service are doing this either. The vast majority of ocean plastic originates from poor countries with poorly managed rubbish disposal. If you put your rubbish in the bin in the UK, it should make it to the landfill, recycling plant or waste to energy plant - depending which bin you use and where you live. Ultimately, non-toxic materials, for example food packaging, going to any of these places have modest environmental impact from disposal - the meaningful impacts come earlier in manufacturing.

Martyn1981

Ben84 wrote: »

Glass is infinitely recyclable, made from abundant sand, and it's awful for the environment. Compared to plastic or card cartons, glass is exceptionally heavy - resulting in the use of a large amount of material - a material which must be melted and formed at very high temperatures, the result being much higher energy consumption.

I appreciate exactly what you are saying, but glass bottles, especially for milk are also re-useable, not just recyclable.

GwylimT

Kenya have a glass bottle deposit scheme, if a developing country can manage it the UK can.

We avoid plastics as much as possible.
We buy loose fruit and veg, small things like berries go into a paper bag.

Cleaning products is a trickier one. We buy each container once and then refill these in store. When they eventually break we fully take apart a spray system so it can be recycled.

Toiletries we use soap bars for hair, face, body and hands. We haven't been able to avoid plastic tubes for toothpaste, we do however use biodegradable toothbrushes.

We don't buy synthetic clothing, we only use natural fibres so the tiny bits that cannot be filtered from the water will biodegrade, unlike fleece etc.

Meat is tricky as are yoghurts, we have however found a few yoghurt brands here where the pot can be recycled. Meat from the butchers would go in a plastic bag, as it is prefrozen we usually stick it in a biodegradable bag and put it straight in the freezer drawer in that, as it's frozen the different meats don't stick together.

Herbs and spices we do buy in plastic bags, otherwise we would be buying around eight glass pots per week.

Ben84

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I appreciate exactly what you are saying, but glass bottles, especially for milk are also re-useable, not just recyclable.

Potentially they're reusable, but aside from doorstep milk deliveries I don't know of any other product in the UK that reuses glass bottles? No deposit, no return packaging is pretty much universal in the UK now - and it seems this is similar around Europe and the US too. With single use as the standard, I think our best option is where possible to use packaging that uses the least material/energy consumption in manufacturing and delivery. With no closed loop system for packaging (something I am not promoting as such, it has downsides too) then we need to reduce the amount of material and energy going it to it. In this situation, shifting up to higher mass, higher energy options like glass and metal increases environmental damage.

Although I'm not in principle against household recycling, the general perception that it is the single issue that matters above all others has I believe made household recycling - or at least the often misled understanding of it - one of the biggest environmental mistakes of the past few decades. People have continued to consume and generate more and more waste, and ironically feel good about it because they can recycle it! So many people have told me that they care about the environment, and to support this they say things like their recycle bin is always full or they've requested a second recycling bin. There's a real issue with the volume of waste they're making, but recycling seems to have negated awareness of this on an individual and even large scale level. Even local councils talk positively about the huge volume of waste recycled rather than about the huge volume of waste produced as an actual problem. Conversations about waste reduction I have almost always turn in to recycling options, as if the two are the same. Largely, people have gotten too hooked on recycling and the problems are growing. At first it started to greatly diminish awareness that rubbish is bad because it's things we invested resources in that are no longer useful, and turned the issue simply in to what to do with the stuff. Now it's progressing in to a growing demand for some of the most resource intensive materials over low resource consuming alternatives as people pursue recycling without considering the wider impact of products.

Ben84

GwylimT wrote: »

Kenya have a glass bottle deposit scheme, if a developing country can manage it the UK can.

They may be cleaning and reusing the bottles? The viability of that depends how labour intensive it is, as labour costs a lot more here. However, tesco did at one point have automated recycling banks that gave people points for depositing items, so potentially people can be motivated to use specific deposit places for rubbish.

GwylimT wrote: »

We avoid plastics as much as possible.
We buy loose fruit and veg, small things like berries go into a paper bag.

Avoiding plastic is good, but replacing it with higher resource consuming materials like paper is detrimental to the environment.

https://ecomyths.org/2014/05/27/myth-paper-bags-are-greener-than-plastic/

Responsibly disposed of plastics reduce environmental impact overall compared to paper. However, I still prefer fruit and vegetables in paper, I find they keep better.

GwylimT wrote: »

Cleaning products is a trickier one. We buy each container once and then refill these in store. When they eventually break we fully take apart a spray system so it can be recycled.

Is this ecover refills? Unfortunately, my local ecover refill shop closed down some years ago and I don't know of any alternative. So, it was back to single use detergent packaging for us after that. I buy the method refill bags now for clothes detergent and washing up liquid, and use soda crystals as they come in a thin bag.

GwylimT wrote: »

Toiletries we use soap bars for hair, face, body and hands. We haven't been able to avoid plastic tubes for toothpaste, we do however use biodegradable toothbrushes.

We don't buy synthetic clothing, we only use natural fibres so the tiny bits that cannot be filtered from the water will biodegrade, unlike fleece etc.

This is something I've only recently realised, but it's kind of obvious now I think about it that plastic fibre fabrics produce bits that go down the drain. Unfortunately, I've become pretty hooked on poly-cotton because it doesn't need ironing and own a lot of it now. Not ironing saves time and electric though, so I don't know how it balances out in the end. Like many choices, the environmental impacts are just different and hard to compare directly. I wonder about these things, but at the moment I'm after the big things I feel I can measure - like how much energy and water our house uses, and the weight and resource intensity of our rubbish.

GwylimT wrote: »

Meat is tricky as are yoghurts, we have however found a few yoghurt brands here where the pot can be recycled. Meat from the butchers would go in a plastic bag, as it is prefrozen we usually stick it in a biodegradable bag and put it straight in the freezer drawer in that, as it's frozen the different meats don't stick together.

Herbs and spices we do buy in plastic bags, otherwise we would be buying around eight glass pots per week.

I've started buying the bags now. It makes sense, no glass and the bag is less plastic than one of those jar's caps anyway.

Anthorn

Re. refilling coffee containers. Ouch! What we do is refill glass bottles which can be recycled with plastic foil containers which can't be recycled. Kenco Rich Roast and their eco refill is my example here. What it has going for it is "97% less packaging weight" - easier to carry home.

Refilling/reusing plastic containers is the obvious way to reduce plastic waste and eco household cleaning products look to be the leader. There is Splosh which was founded on this principle and method which also provide refills. Splosh wins because the plastic refills can be returned to them to reuse or recycle.

Lastly a little trick with plastic yoghurt pots: If they are boiled in a little water in a pressure cooker they revert to a plastic disc which can be used as a coaster. Only problem here is begging or borrowing a pressure cooker

paulharding150

Anthorn wrote: »

Re. refilling coffee containers. Ouch! What we do is refill glass bottles which can be recycled with plastic foil containers which can't be recycled. Kenco Rich Roast and their eco refill is my example here. What it has going for it is "97% less packaging weight" - easier to carry home.

I've been saying this for years and it's pleasing to see someone else say it too.
The packaging weighs less so it's more environmentally friendly in terms of the carbon footprint when it's delivered to the supermarket and their distribution center.

Frustratingly I can see many people buying these 'eco' packages only to then either bin the packet or naively put it in with their recycling assuming it can be recycled.