Care Home Funding

VixterW

Hi everyone,
My grandmother, who is in her 70s, recently suffered a medical problem that has dramatically reduced her mobility. She is working on rehabilitation but her preference is to go from hospital into a retirement home where she can receive some care.
She owns her home jointly with my mum, and has some savings. When we have discussed a place for her she has become upset at the thought of her savings being taken for use towards the care while others who don't have savings don't pay the same. Her plan has been eventually to gift her savings to her family.
My question is whether there is a cut off around when she can gift the funds. I believe that once she goes into a facility they will increase control over her assets, so is she better moving money around before it gets to that stage? Or is it already too late since she is in hospital? I would like to make enquiries to the homes she is interested in but would not like to jeopardise her wishes for her assets.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Vix

MallyGirl

the concept of 'deprivation of assets' is likely to kick in here since that is precisely what is being considered.

elsien

She already has the care needs so giving money away now would count as deprivation of assets.
A couple of points though - does she really want to go into a home or has she considered having more support at home or housing with care? Has she had any sort of assessment as to her ongoing care needs and the support on offer? Even if she had no money, then the local authority wouldn't pay for a care home if her needs could be better/more cheaply met elsewhere.
Has she considered asking about a step down/rehab bed which would give her 6 weeks in a care home for more assessment and to help her regain confidence. After which she could make a more informed decision.
Finally, money gives her choices. The homes she is interested in may cost more than the local authority would pay. If she has no money then her choices are dramatically reduced. As her family could you not persuade her that you'd much prefer her to have a comfortable old age by using the money on herself, rather than being unhappy somewhere while gifting the money.
My job involves going into care homes. Some LA paying ones are good. Many are not.

Edited to add - depending on how old your mum is and how the house is owned, your grans share may be disregarded. Take advice from Age UK or similar.
(I'm presuming that the mobility issues aren't enough to qualify her for health funding.)

Linton

As has been said it's too late for your GM to give her money away and get the council to pay for her upkeep. Elsiens suggestion about care at home is very useful, if at all possible it will enable her to live independently for longer in an environment she is used to at a much lower cost than a care home. It certainly helped make one of my relation's final years a lot happier than they would otherwise have been.

Two points which maybe could help her to understand her situation
- perhaps the family could assure your GM that they want her to use her money to ensure that her old age is as comfortable as possible, whether by paying for at-home care or by funding her move to a care home of her choice.
- how would she feel if a member of her family told her they were planning to give her all their money and stop working so that they could live off benefits.

kidmugsy

VixterW wrote: »

she has become upset at the thought of her savings being taken for use towards the care while others who don't have savings don't pay the same.

That's the way in which the Welfare State was reformed in the forties. People have been voting for it to continue in this vein ever since. Anyone suggesting change would be howled at as a Nazi.

Malthusian

VixterW wrote: »

When we have discussed a place for her she has become upset at the thought of her savings being taken for use towards the care while others who don't have savings don't pay the same.

She has presumably lived her whole life paying either mortgage or rent, and paying tax on that money so that those who don't pay mortgage or rent can be housed by the government for free. Why is this suddenly a problem now?

What she is considering will not work. She will be assessed as if she still has the money.

The "cut off" is as follows: if you are genuinely giving your money away with no intention of forcing the taxpayer to pay for your care, then the deprivation of assets rule won't apply. You have told us that her intention is to make the taxpayer pay for her care, so the cut off has already passed.

Daniel54

Is there a Power of Attorney in place ? If not,now would be a very good time to do so as elderly people can decline quickly and the process is infinitely easier when your grandmother is still compos mentis.

My late mother used to mutter about us not wasting our inheritance on her care should she need it.We ended up using a very large chunk of her savings to provide care in her home for over 5 years which is where she died.My sister and I have never harboured the slightest doubt that we did the best thing by her ( and we were still left with a decent inheritance,albeit diminished ).

Mojisola

VixterW wrote: »

My grandmother, who is in her 70s, recently suffered a medical problem that has dramatically reduced her mobility.

She is working on rehabilitation but her preference is to go from hospital into a retirement home where she can receive some care.

I believe that once she goes into a facility they will increase control over her assets

It would be worth getting Gran to set up a Power of Attorney so that family members can manage her money if she becomes incapable.

The council won't take over her finances. If she is assessed as being a self-funder, then she will have a contract with the care home and will pay the bill directly - just like staying in a hotel.

If her place is funded by the council then they will have her pension/s as a contribution towards the costs - she will get twenty-something pounds a week as pocket money.

elsien wrote: »

Edited to add - depending on how old your mum is and how the house is owned, your grans share may be disregarded.

As above, if Mum is over 60 then the house may not be included in the financial assessment.

If she is assessed as being entitled to council help, they will assess her needs and may not agree that she needs residential care but will arrange home care instead.

lisyloo

If her place is funded by the council then they will have her pension/s as a contribution towards the costs

She will still have to make the payments though.
State pension and pension credit gets paid to Gran and Gran pays the home the lot minus pocket money (just in that situation ourselves).

Doesn't make any difference financially but you do need someone able to operate the bank account.

I've just done pension creditx2, attendance allowancex2, carers allowancex2, council tax benefit, nursing home fees for MIL, care at home fees for FIL, warm front grant so don't underestimate the amount of work involved.

Agree with other comments that the local authority will not pay £600+ to put your Gran in a home if carers can visit for £15 per hour. It's not a free choice when you are reliant on the local authority/tax payer to pay, it's based on need. If you have your own money then of course you can choose to do as you wish, it's not all wonderful though. My MIL is in a nursing home where most of the people need to be hoisted into a wheelchair to go to the toilet. It takes time to get them into a wheelchair, hoisted onto the toilet, cleaned, padded up, returned to wheelchair then returned to chair. She will have to get used to waiting her turn for the bathroom, staff and hoist which inevitably means accidents. At night if she is not allowed to get out of bed alone, then again she'll have to wait and if she can't she'll again have a continence accident.
The staff at my MIL's home are vary caring but if your gran thinks she'll be waited on hand and foot then I can assure you'll it's not like that.
There are some fantastic state of the art care home in our area and they are about £1100 - £1300 a week and that's Bristol not London prices. I was suprised to find out that there is a long waiting list for them.

badmemory

What lisyloo says about care homes & continence accidents is very true & can be very embarassing for all concerned & then it gets much worse when the person in care no longer cares that they have had an accident.

I would suggest the 6 week rehab already mentioned. During that 6 weeks family members can view as many care homes as they can stand, look at them from Gran's point of view, but also look at them from a visitors point of view. Many of them are not for the faint hearted.

Keep_pedalling

Unless your mother lives with your gran and is over 60 then her half of the house will be taken into account. As she has immediate care needs she is really limited to small normal gifts for things like Christmas and birthdays.

Depending on the level of her disability sheltered housing or assisted living could be suitable for her, and it might be possible to fund that through renting her house out.

Getting an LPA should certainly be a priority. Not only does this make dealing with the LA and others on her behalf far easier, it may help her get over being upset about these cost if she is not having to deal with it directly herself.