Wheelchair users and a semi-detached house ?

wherediditallgo

drphibes wrote: »

Thankyou for the replies.

I think the point being made regarding wheelchair users not being offered a property with stairs is exactly what is stopping us from being considered. What annoys me is they have no idea what we can and cannot do in our everyday existence. While they might have rules in place I cannot help feeling that they are not taking each individual person on a personal basis and instead if you happen to use a wheelchair you are not going to be considered.

But you're asking the housing staff to get/make an assessment of your capabilities in order to give you a house you don't need. Why should they? Do you seriously expect the organisation to do that for every applicant? Why should a disabled person get that assessment & not an able-bodied one, to make sure they can reach all the cupboards, can get in & out of the bath safely, can open & shut windows properly etc? These are just some of the things I have difficulty with, & I'm classed as able-bodied only because I haven't registered myself as disabled! Why should you get that added consideration & not me or someone else? It's not like they're saying they won't house you - they just seem to be saying that your wheelchair means that you're only eligible to apply for certain housing. Don't forget, in saying that, the organisation also stop other people applying for that accommodation to keep it available for those who need it. There are many people who'd love a ground floor property or a bungalow, but my council won't allow them to apply for it because they restrict it to those such as the disabled or elderly & they have limited stock of it. There's a popular misconception that social housing is available to all who need it when they want it (it isn't), & if what the person wants isn't available, the housing provider can be forced to make it so (it can't). The HA don't have to house you, & can tell you that if you're not happy with their policy you are free to apply to somewhere else. You can't force someone to house you, & you certainly can't force them to give you the accommodation you want.

drphibes wrote: »

Wheelchairs come in all types of sizes and I have never come across a doorway in my 40 years that I could not get through, yet I do know a few guys who would struggle to fit through various doors. I appreciate that if a stairlift was installed it would have to be removed if and when we did leave the property, I would have no objection to signing a document stating that I would cover the cost of the removal of the lift.

And those same people, if eligible for social housing, wouldn't be given a house just because they want one or just because it had wider doorways - they'd be allowed to apply for a property appropriate to their medical/social need, & then if the doorway needed to be widened, the council/HA would do it. You're asking the HA to give you a house that you don't need, when what you need is accommodation, something that a bungalow or ground-floor flat could just as equally provide. Your stance is like me telling my council that I want a house because I'm under average height - if I don't have a medical/social need for the house, I won't be allowed to apply for it, & rightly so. It's all very well saying you'd sign an agreement that you'd cover the cost of removing the stair-lift if you moved out, but the simple fact is if you don't pay up when the time comes for whatever reason, no organisation will want to be seen chasing a wheelchair user for the money.

drphibes wrote: »

The thought of being served notice at anytime is a worrying one and one of my greatest fears is what kind of property would we be offered if the assocication had 2 months to rehouse us ? We have been on their list for over 3 years and have not been offered one single property so it does not appear that they have anything suitable for us in great numbers ?

Yes, that is a worry, but that's a separate issue & one that everyone renting privately could have to face. How much effort have you put into keeping their attention on your application, & how long do people wait usually for council/HA accommodation? Many people go on the housing register & do nothing to further their application, such as keeping in contact with the organisation, letting them know of any change in their circumstances. Would you be in contact with the HA now if it wasn't for them not offering you the house you want?

Councils & HAs can't be expected to cater for all-comers - they have a budget to work within, & have to do what's reasonable to keep the properties accessible to as many people as possible. I honestly do appreciate your position, but you're not a special case - this is about equality, & you can't want equality one minute & then expect special treatment against the organisation's housing policy the next. Your application should be treated on the same basis as everyone else's. The day that (God forbid) you or your partner have an accident in the home & need to be taken out in an emergency, you'll be glad you were.

drphibes

When did I say I wanted special treatment ? All we are asking for is not to be judged by a suit behind a desk that has never met either of us and seems to be able to make a policy that is spot on when it comes to disability. I have asked the housing association to rip up any points that we might have due to being in wheelchairs because they do not seem to benefit us at the moment. Yes if they have a good range of bungalows the points would be great but they do not and when questioned they have no intentions (probably due to lack of funds) to increase their stock of one level properties.

I am asking the housing association to consider us for this particular property and not give us it like you say. Also you say I do not need a house ? are you trying to say that everyone who is one a waiting list is homeless ? surely there area lot of people who have a roof over their head at the moment but want to move for various reasons ?

If I did sign a document stating I would cover the cost of removing the stairlift then that should be a legal issue and by rights they could take me all the way to the courts if I decided to go back on the agreement. Would they take me to court is anyone's guess.

You do sum it up very well though and I fully agree with your statement that "but you're not a special case - this is about equality".

Drphibes

wherediditallgo

To expect an organisation to look at your personal capabilities & look at you as an individual when they clearly don't do that for all of their other applicants is to expect special treatment. I would have loved a council house, but as a single person I'm only eligible to apply for a one-bedroom flat at most. The fact that I have certain medical conditions that do affect my mobility every day means I would be entitled to have disability aids fitted - I would not become entitled to apply for a house no matter how much I begged for it.

Yes, people on the waiting list do want to move for a variety of reasons, & each of those reasons have a level by which they're considered. Some have no bearing on the application whatsoever, some (such as overcrowding) do. When I say that you do not need a house, you haven't shown that you do - you've said you want more secure accommodation, but that doesn't mean it has to come in the form of a house. Nowhere have you said that you need a house rather than a bungalow or ground-floor flat, or why. Nowhere have you said that the semi-detached house will meet your needs in ways that a bungalow or ground-floor flat won't - you've said you're worried about having somewhere to live if your landlord gives you notice to quit.

At the end of the day, you have to weigh up your worry about your current accommodation against your wish for a semi-detached house rather than the property types the HA are prepared to consider you for. Not only are HAs not obliged to house everyone who applies to them for housing, if the matter went to court, you'd have a dickens of a time explaining to a judge why you, despite your concerns about security of tenure at your current accommodation, decided to stay in a position that allowed those same worries to continue to exist & could render you homeless rather than take the offers that were made to you that met the house policy requirements.

drphibes

wherediditallgo wrote: »

To expect an organisation to look at your personal capabilities & look at you as an individual when they clearly don't do that for all of their other applicants is to expect special treatment. I would have loved a council house, but as a single person I'm only eligible to apply for a one-bedroom flat at most. The fact that I have certain medical conditions that do affect my mobility every day means I would be entitled to have disability aids fitted - I would not become entitled to apply for a house no matter how much I begged for it.

Yes, people on the waiting list do want to move for a variety of reasons, & each of those reasons have a level by which they're considered. Some have no bearing on the application whatsoever, some (such as overcrowding) do. When I say that you do not need a house, you haven't shown that you do - you've said you want more secure accommodation, but that doesn't mean it has to come in the form of a house. Nowhere have you said that you need a house rather than a bungalow or ground-floor flat, or why. Nowhere have you said that the semi-detached house will meet your needs in ways that a bungalow or ground-floor flat won't - you've said you're worried about having somewhere to live if your landlord gives you notice to quit.

At the end of the day, you have to weigh up your worry about your current accommodation against your wish for a semi-detached house rather than the property types the HA are prepared to consider you for. Not only are HAs not obliged to house everyone who applies to them for housing, if the matter went to court, you'd have a dickens of a time explaining to a judge why you, despite your concerns about security of tenure at your current accommodation, decided to stay in a position that allowed those same worries to continue to exist & could render you homeless rather than take the offers that were made to you that met the house policy requirements.

Hi

The association have no problem with the idea of giving us a 2 bedroomed property, it is the stairs that are the problem here. I have never requested the association to assess if we could manage in this house and I am pretty certain that the vast majority of people who are lucky to get re-housed do not ask for an assessment.
Why do we need this house ? Well like I stated earlier we have not been offered anything since we have been on the waiting list and we placed ourselves on that list because we knew that our current home would not be available to to us forever. Maybe I could start to see the associations point more if they had a surplus of bungalows that they had built and they needed occupying but that is not the case here. They have a low number of what they consider suitable properties for us and these do not come up often which is proved by the fact that we have never been offered one. I have made calls to them since we have been on the list but the message is allways the same that they have a low number and they do not become vacant very often.

If the courts every did get involved then I would have no difficulty in explaining why we are living in the current property, we have never had the chance to move out to any other home other than possibly another private landlord.

Drphibes

wherediditallgo

drphibes wrote: »

Hi

The association have no problem with the idea of giving us a 2 bedroomed property, it is the stairs that are the problem here.

And the stairs will continue to be a problem until you grasp the fact that if they make an exception for you, they face possibly having to do it for everyone. You're asking for something that I have never come across in 5 years of working for a HA & over 10 years working in the NHS (where I regularly get asked to help patients get letters from their doctor to support their housing application) - a person in a wheelchair wanting a home with stairs. It might sound sensible/reasonable to you, but everything about that screams "What???!!!" to me. If a council/HA offered a disabled person a home with stairs, for every one that might think "Yippee", there'll be loads who'll be insulted, wonder what the organisation is playing at & some may even go to the press about it. The organisation has to think about your health & safety - even if you think you could cope, they won't allow you to take the risk because both you & they could be paying the penalty if anything goes wrong. And if you find out that you can't cope after all, they'll then be looking at re-housing you again, & moving you out of somewhere that someone else in at least as much need as you could have & would have been living in quite comfortably far earlier but for your insistence that you could manage.

drphibes wrote: »

I have never requested the association to assess if we could manage in this house and I am pretty certain that the vast majority of people who are lucky to get re-housed do not ask for an assessment.

People don't usually ask for an assessment, but they often get offered something that doesn't quite meet their wants & they feel the organisation hasn't taken all the factors in their request into account, so they're not exactly happy about the offer they get. However, they look at the bigger picture & make the decision to accept it on the basis that (a) getting more secure accommodation is more important than getting exactly what they hoped for, (b) once they're on the council/HA's books, it will be a lot easier to get moved to somewhere else because they'll then be one of their tenants. That was exactly my situation many years ago - the flat was higher up than I wanted & further away from my work than I'd have liked, & needed a lot doing to it though it met the Health & Safety requirements. Despite that, I took it because I knew that, having waited over 9 years for the offer, I'd have a better chance of being re-housed as one of their tenants. I had to wait a year before being allowed to go back on the housing register, but I ended up staying there many years, partly through choice. You feel they're not looking at you as an individual, but there's no requirement for them to do so, & there's no requirement for them to allow anything they did find out from treating you as an individual to impact on your application for housing other than in ways already covered by their housing policy.

drphibes wrote: »

Why do we need this house ? Well like I stated earlier we have not been offered anything since we have been on the waiting list and we placed ourselves on that list because we knew that our current home would not be available to to us forever. Maybe I could start to see the associations point more if they had a surplus of bungalows that they had built and they needed occupying but that is not the case here. They have a low number of what they consider suitable properties for us and these do not come up often which is proved by the fact that we have never been offered one. I have made calls to them since we have been on the list but the message is allways the same that they have a low number and they do not become vacant very often.

Then unfortunately you are going to have to make the same choices that everyone else wanting accommodation has to - wait until something is available, find another organisation to help you or find another private landlord. Your definition of 'need' is different from the HA's definition of it as a housing provider. The HA aren't going to give you priority or make an exception for you just because of your concern that your current landlord might give you notice to quit. They'll take your application & assess it in the same way as they do everyone else's - on the basis of your need, & in line with their current policy. I'm not trying to say that you're not entitled to housing, but everything you've said so far illustrates a want for housing that gives you more security. I've yet to see anything that shows you need that semi-detached house - all you've shown is a need for accommodation. Yes, you've waited 3 years for somewhere to live - that's nothing compared to some people, me included. I waited over 9 years for my first council flat, & many people have been on the list far longer than that. Disabled people do have to wait, just as people with large families do, or those who want somewhere in a popular area, or those who want a garden. Everyone has some itch they want scratched, & the organisation can't do it all - someone has to wait.

drphibes wrote: »

If the courts every did get involved then I would have no difficulty in explaining why we are living in the current property, we have never had the chance to move out to any other home other than possibly another private landlord.

Good, but the court won't only be asking you about your current accommodation. They'll be just as interested in why you think you should be able to apply for a particular type of housing, when the organisation have made it abundantly clear that they'll never consider you or any other person in a wheelchair for it. I can tell you here & now, no court is going to make a HA consider you for what you want, because it has the potential to cause far more problems for them & for you than granting your wish would ever resolve. You're not being discriminated against, because just as wheelchair users can only apply for certain types of housing, able-bodied people can only apply for certain types too. The housing they're prepared to consider you for won't be available to other people who might have wanted it. It's restricted to certain categories of applicant, which in the normal scheme of things would therefore benefit disabled people, but because you want something else you see this as you being treated in an "appalling" way.

As annoying as it might be, you're going to have to accept that every social housing provider has policies in place that allow them to meet the needs of the majority of their applicants in the various categories, & that if you find those policies unacceptable (rather than illegal) you'll have to look elsewhere for accommodation. An able-bodied person has the same cross to bear. Good luck in getting something, whoever you get it from.

Doozergirl

You do have to consider what happens to the house after you've left it The HA spent a small fortune adapting a flat for my mum after we had to leave our first floor flat when she couldn't manage. It also took forever. We had to live with my grandmother for three years while we waited and we must have been priority because my mum was stuck upstairs in a bedroom for much of that time when it became just too much for her negotiate the stairs. When we finally moved in it had all sorts of mod cons that my mum would never have been able to afford.

It would have been impossible for us to live in a house that you might have moved out of with stairs, even with a stair lift. If an able bodied person were to move into an adapted house, they'd also find it quite strange and the money spent on adaptations would have been wasted.

When the flat became vacant I was shocked at how quickly it was filled.
I don't think they are discriminating against you, I think they've just taken a view of what is cost effective and what is safe for the majority. Unfortunately you can't please all of the people all of the time, however much you would want to, especially with such limited housing stock.