pip

borogers

Got turned down for pip 0 points, i have epilepsy 1 to 2 grand mal seizures a week ...the one question and answer that made me annoyed was the bathing one, i have a bath and the wife sits in the bathroom with me has i'v had seizures and nearly drowned in the past. So they said sit in an empty bath holding a shower head ..would that stand up in a pip tribunal or would a judge dismiss it...

Khan123

Appeal and ask for a consideration.

borogers

I did appeal and still got 0 points,so now i have to go to a tribunal but surely the judge will not agree with a disabled person sitting in an empty bath holding a shower head in winter has ok

poppy12345

borogers wrote: »

I did appeal and still got 0 points,so now i have to go to a tribunal but surely the judge will not agree with a disabled person sitting in an empty bath holding a shower head in winter has ok

PIP isn't just about bathing/washing. There's other descriptors too that you can gain points from and this is what you need to concentrate on, not just the bath.

Have you taken a look at the descriptors because it doesn't seem like you understand what PIP is all about. There's 2 parts to PIP, Daily Living and mobility. You need to score at least 8 points in 1 or both parts for a Standard award, 12 points for Enhanced. Did you send evidence to support your claim and prove that those descriptors apply to you (not just bathing)?
Here's link to those descriptors http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-PIP-assessment-points.html

GlasweJen

It absolutely won’t stand up in a tribunal. I’m on my way out to work but I’ll post later with an update on epilepsy/supervision and PIP. There was a ruling at the start of the year around supervision.

Alice_Holt

1) You need to carefully go through all the PIP descriptors and see where you score the necessary 8 points for a Daily Living award.
Be aware that to achieve points you have to need help for the majority of days (over a time period of 365 days). This can make it different for sufferers of seizures to qualify for PIP, whereas DLA specifically considered supervision needs. But look carefully at the link GlasJen will post - this helps.
What you also need to consider is the effects of the seizures, how long they last, and the care needs you then have.
So if you have a seizure 2 days a week and then need care for the following day - you have care needs for the majority of days.

2) You need to explain this (in relation to the PIP activities) in your submission to the tribunal. In addition explain the harm you could suffer due to a fit, and its likelihood without supervision.
This are useful guides:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/
https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/benefits/personal-independence-payments-pip
Get statements from family members to confirm your care needs. Provide medical evidence to support your appeal.

3) if you don't feel you understand PIP, or would struggle to write a submission to the tribunal - see if your local CAB / advice agency has the resources to help with an appeal.

4) Once you have looked at the DL descriptors - tell us how you think you get to 8 points.

biggysmaller

Research and homework people before going to an assessment - it's not that hard! It's so frustrating to hear stories of people scoring zero points because they have failed to understand how to fill out the form, what the descriptors mean, and how the assessment is carried out.

Only the other day at my assessment I could see people in the waiting room who were a gaurantted fail - These assessment centres watch and listen to everything! It's so vitally important to know how they work so you can speak to them in a language they understand.

People turn up at these assessment centres expecting a medical and a sympathetic ear - it doesn't work like that - they are there to assess you FIT for work!

An hour or two on the internet prior to your assessment may have helped you understand the process. Here's a helpful link for future reference http://www.shropshiremegroup.org.uk/hints-for-completing-the-esa-50-form2.php
and this for PIP descriptors http://www.focusondisability.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-PIP-assessment-points.html

My advice, for now, is visit your local CAB office and let them handle your appeal.

Alice_Holt

GlasweJen wrote: »

It absolutely won’t stand up in a tribunal.

Totally agree.
This is not doing the activity to an acceptable standard IMO.

OP - if you don't know about the importance of "reliably" and "to an acceptable standard" in PIP decisions - then google it.

Here is your starter for 10:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/662190/personal-independence-payment-handbook.pdf (page 8)
https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

Lots of info online.

Who completed your PIP form?

biggysmaller

Unfortunately, you failed to read the descriptors before your assessment.

Standing in a bath and holding a shower above your head would sound pretty able. If stated in your PIP2 form that you could do this but not reliably, safely or repeatedly or without significant pain and discomfort then you may stand a chance of an appeal.

Prinzessilein

biggysmaller wrote: »

People turn up at these assessment centres expecting a medical and a sympathetic ear - it doesn't work like that - they are there to assess you FIT for work!

The OP has applied for PiP...the assessors are not looking at your fitness for work with this benefit - you can work full time and still claim PiP (it is ESA that would be looking at Work Capability).

For the OP - you need to look carefully at the descriptors....you have epilepsy with grand mal seizures...this fact would not get you points for PiP...you need to explain how this affects your ability to complete the descriptors....So looking at the bathing descriptor...I have severe dyspraxia, merely stating this means that I would get no points - however, explaining that I cannot get in/out of the bath because of my poor balance...that I need an adapted bathroom(level access shower, and support rails) gives evidence to support my ticking the box that says I need assistance in bathing.

Alice_Holt

biggysmaller wrote: »

Standing in a bath and holding a shower above your head would sound pretty able. If stated in your PIP2 form that you could do this but not reliably, safely or repeatedly or without significant pain and discomfort then you may stand a chance of an appeal.

Bit puzzled by this post.
1) Look at the OP's question - the HCP's reason for not awarding points is that the OP could sit in a bath with the plug removed and shower himself.
This isn't what the OP wrote this on his PIP form.

2) Just needing supervision to bathe will not merit a PIP award. (As others have commented).

Also re your previous post:
PIP is not an out of work benefit. Fitness for work is not considered for a PIP award. Many people work and claim PIP.

PIP is intended to offset the financial expenditure of having a disability or illness requiring additional care costs.