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RLP after conviction
BF93
Posts: 4 Newbie
Unsure if this is the correct sub-forum or not.
My partner was dismissed from work in Dec 2016 for theft. The company has a revenue of £33bn, so it isn't as if it's a small business with an excruciating loss putting business at risk.
They had him say in statements that it totaled to over £22k (unsure if it was RLP or employer) but only £13k was documented on partners papers and only £60 on CCTV.
He wasn't released on any bail - nothing.
He missed his summoning due to moving cities and they never updated the system, so he handed himself in after he received a phone call and was then escorted to magistrates - plead no contest at his solicitors request, in March. The case was then sent to crown in April. Hearing finished early due to CPS not handing in enough sufficient evidence in theft amount, so they lowered the grand total to £15k. He had to plead guilty for £15k at his second crown hearing, the "team" fighting for the employer was happy with the results and was given a suspended sentence (18 months suspended for 2 years), 150 hours unpaid work and a victim surcharge.
Today (7 months after sentencing), my partner received a letter from RLP demanding the first original amount of £22k + fees, else it will be forwarded for court proceedings. I told him to contact his solicitor immediately but he was out of office.
Where will he/we stand with this?
My partner was dismissed from work in Dec 2016 for theft. The company has a revenue of £33bn, so it isn't as if it's a small business with an excruciating loss putting business at risk.
They had him say in statements that it totaled to over £22k (unsure if it was RLP or employer) but only £13k was documented on partners papers and only £60 on CCTV.
He wasn't released on any bail - nothing.
He missed his summoning due to moving cities and they never updated the system, so he handed himself in after he received a phone call and was then escorted to magistrates - plead no contest at his solicitors request, in March. The case was then sent to crown in April. Hearing finished early due to CPS not handing in enough sufficient evidence in theft amount, so they lowered the grand total to £15k. He had to plead guilty for £15k at his second crown hearing, the "team" fighting for the employer was happy with the results and was given a suspended sentence (18 months suspended for 2 years), 150 hours unpaid work and a victim surcharge.
Today (7 months after sentencing), my partner received a letter from RLP demanding the first original amount of £22k + fees, else it will be forwarded for court proceedings. I told him to contact his solicitor immediately but he was out of office.
Where will he/we stand with this?
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Comments
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School holidays again?0
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The normal rule for RLP is to ignore it (where no legal action is taken against the thief), but that does not apply here. The company does have the right to take civil action to recoup their losses. Your partner now needs to focus on working out and agreeing the correct amount owed. Due to the high amount involved, the company may well be granted a costs award, so you'll have to pay for their legal fees for any civil case.
The revenue of the company is entirely irrelevant. The fact that your partner stole a large amount and this was proven beyond reasonable doubt is all that matters.0 -
Sorry, Fosterdog?
Boris -
I was lead to believe that a sentence was an alternative punishment to compensation? It wasn't the legal fees which were mentioned in the letter (although it is obvious if it happened), it was the 'fees' for workers to "investigate" the case, costing an additional £720+. There is no investigation for it as there is nothing to investigate, else it would have been presented in court. Their sum was an estimation and an extortionate leap from what it on paper.
Oh without a doubt. The judge saw it as a drop in the ocean, and said he was lucky for that reason, which is why I mentioned its worth.0 -
I was lead to believe that a sentence was an alternative punishment to compensation?
Surely the "victim surcharge" is the compensation you mention?
The company didn't *have* to press charges against your partner! They could have simply took them to civil court to reclaim the 22k (or whatever) owed, but they have chosen to do BOTH here. I hope that helps to explain why they are pursuing your partner on the criminal front AND the civial front.It wasn't the legal fees which were mentioned in the letter (although it is obvious if it happened), it was the 'fees' for workers to "investigate" the case, costing an additional £720+. There is no investigation for it as there is nothing to investigate, else it would have been presented in court. Their sum was an estimation and an extortionate leap from what it on paper.
Unless they specifically employ someone to investigate internal fraud (they wouldn't have let it get to such a high amount), they have undoubtedly pulled employees off other tasks to investigate the fraud your partner committed + build a case. This is lost hours for them and I don't blame them for trying to claim for it.
They may not be entitled to claim for it though. Your best bet is speaking to a lawyer/solicitor (we are nowhere near as qualified on here).Oh without a doubt. The judge saw it as a drop in the ocean, and said he was lucky for that reason, which is why I mentioned its worth.
Doesn't matter if it is a drop in the ocean or not. Stealing is stealing.
One of the things I hate about society is how a habitual thief who may steal from shops regularly (only a few ££ worth of items) end up serving jail time, yet more affluent people can steal 15k+ from a company and merely get a suspended sentence with community service.
Your partner should have served time for this.
And I am quite surprised that you are sticking by them! Fair play to you like, but I just hope for your sake that they don't end up stealing again further down the line. That's really going to be a game over moment, for both of you.0 -
Sorry, Fosterdog?
Boris -
I was lead to believe that a sentence was an alternative punishment to compensation? It wasn't the legal fees which were mentioned in the letter (although it is obvious if it happened), it was the 'fees' for workers to "investigate" the case, costing an additional £720+. There is no investigation for it as there is nothing to investigate, else it would have been presented in court. Their sum was an estimation and an extortionate leap from what it on paper.
Oh without a doubt. The judge saw it as a drop in the ocean, and said he was lucky for that reason, which is why I mentioned its worth.
No, you're confusing different types of law, you can have separate actions in criminal and civil courts.
The costs they're asking for currently are those incurred to date for their own work. If they pursue you through the courts (for the amount stolen) these could increase significantly.They may not be entitled to claim for it though. Your best bet is speaking to a lawyer/solicitor (we are nowhere near as qualified on here).
Speak for yourself!
I was referring to legal costs for a civil case - those incurred by RLP - which for claims over £5,000 may well be awarded.
OP is this the external company RLP, or the company's internal RLP operation?0 -
Stuart - I thought the surcharge was a mandatory (courtesy) compensation towards the victim, along with a sentence. I didn't think a company was able to claim compensation on top of that. I had a google about it and a few other forums state that RLP can't take things further than a DCA, only the company can claim compensation through the courts.
There was nothing internal about it. It was theft of goods, so nothing in the books were manipulated, only he documented amounts he stole in a personal notebook. Stock checks weren't used due to having such random items in deliveries. He wasn't acting alone, there was 4 or 5 more colleagues involved but worked in two's. They were only dismissed with no further action although one did have a raid in which goods were retrieved.
We all genuinely thought an instant custodial sentence would be thrown at him, but he's had no previous convictions and there was lack of evidence against him which basically let him free, so to speak. His barrister was so confused over the matter because he is a nice character.
I trust that he won't steal again, merely for the fact he has lost family over the matter, I couldn't just let him go. He managed to get a new job after his sentencing (it was on hold in case) being completely open about his actions.0 -
I had a google about it and a few other forums state that RLP can't take things further than a DCA, only the company can claim compensation through the courts.
RLP can act on behalf of the company.
The other cases are likely not to involve the criminal prosecution. This is very different to a slap on the wrist after shoplifting a loaf of bread.0 -
BorisThomson wrote: »No, you're confusing different types of law, you can have separate actions in criminal and civil courts.
The costs they're asking for currently are those incurred to date for their own work. If they pursue you through the courts (for the amount stolen) these could increase significantly.
Speak for yourself!
I was referring to legal costs for a civil case - those incurred by RLP - which for claims over £5,000 may well be awarded.
OP is this the external company RLP, or the company's internal RLP operation?
Right, okay. So the criminal side has zero relevance or connection to the civil side? It states in the letter that "Our client relies upon its investigation file, CCTV, your conviction and the evidence of its personnel involved in the investigation to prove its claim" surely that means they will need to take his conviction into consideration with his plea?
I have no idea, the logo is 'RLP Civil Recovery Specialists since 1998' addressed Retail Loss Prevention Limited based in Nottingham. I know the RLP he spoke to at the time of being caught was the company's own.0 -
Right, okay. So the criminal side has zero relevance or connection to the civil side? It states in the letter that "Our client relies upon its investigation file, CCTV, your conviction and the evidence of its personnel involved in the investigation to prove its claim" surely that means they will need to take his conviction into consideration with his plea?
I have no idea, the logo is 'RLP Civil Recovery Specialists since 1998' addressed Retail Loss Prevention Limited based in Nottingham. I know the RLP he spoke to at the time of being caught was the company's own.
The criminal conviction is evidence that your partner stole the goods, and it follows from that that he is liable to reimburse the company for those goods.
RLP are an outside company that specialises in exactly this. They do all the legwork and then take their cut/ fees from whatever the court awards the company.0 -
If your partner stole the goods and has not returned them, the company will be entitled to the cost of replacing those goods. What happened to the goods?
Civil proceedings are separate to criminal proceedings. Of course the fact that your partner was convicted will be strong evidence in civil proceedings - but is not conclusive as to the amount owed.
If your partner believes the £22k figure is wrong, he is entitled to challenge it. A good first step would be to write back to RLP querying the figure.
Can your partner afford to pay this?0
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