Can resigning before any disciplinary still result in Dismissal?

FelineFan

Ok so in a stressful, heated rant with my line manager, I unfortunately said the words that my husband was so angered at what was going on (too much detail really to going to but effectively working in a very stressful environment regarding numerous issues and the way management were dealing with them), that he wanted to punch him. It was a stupid idle threat made in the heat of the moment.

I then went off sick for a week with the stress. I came back to be told I would be facing an investigation, any witnesses consulted etc i.e. a gross misconduct disciplinary.

After discussions with my husband that evening, I decided to hand in my notice and handed my boss my letter of resignation the following day.

At a meeting later that day, with his boss, I was told I was given two options - one to carry out my notice, they’d continue with the investigation with the likelihood of dismissal or as I understood it, to resign with immediate effect, no investigation would take place.

So I was quite surprised when I finally, after much chasing, received formal notification from HR, that my reason for leaving was Dismissal!

Unfortunately there was nothing in writing at that meeting to say that I was able to resign.

Are they within their rights to do this? I should add that I have only worked for the company for 8 months but had recently completed my 6 month probation period (of a 1 year fixed term contract). I have contacted the citizens advice bureau and ACAS but unfortunately have found both to be very unhelpful.

I would welcome any helpful, factual advice from anyone with an employment law background or someone who may have been in a similar situation.

I would appreciate you keepng any nasty comments and personal opinions to yourself, (which I’ve been subjected to on this forum before). None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes!

Thanks in advance.

Georgesquare

Under two years employment they can dismiss you easily. Sounds as if they have chosen to refuse your resignation and dismiss you instead which they are entitled to do.

pmlindyloo

Did the letter about your dismissal contain any other information? For example, did it say reason for dismissal?

If not, then are you concerned that a dismissal will go against you for future work?

What do you want to achieve?

FelineFan

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Did the letter about your dismissal contain any other information? For example, did it say reason for dismissal?

If not, then are you concerned that a dismissal will go against you for future work?

What do you want to achieve?

1) No, just says Dismissal
2) yes, not been in this position
3) the facts concerning my case?

Comms69

FelineFan wrote: »

1) No, just says Dismissal
2) yes, not been in this position
3) the facts concerning my case?

But the facts are that you shouted and threatened your line manager. Enough for it to be gross misconduct in anyone's book.


CAB and ACAS probably were 'helpful', just that the law doesn't allow you many employment rights in first 24 months of employment.


Basically what you were told last time: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5749695

pmlindyloo

If you wish to claim contribution based JSA then it is better to have been dismissed than having resigned (unless the dismissal was for gross misconduct) as for a resignation you would be sanctioned re JSA.

This may not be at the front of your concerns as you may not even meet the requirements for contribution based JSA (have you worked full time for the tax years 2014/2015, 2015/2016?)

It is always frustrating when you fell that things have gone wrong in the work place and you have problems with how things are managed but the truth is that there are ways to manage this - raising a grievance etc etc Unfortunately you have got into an argument with management and said some things in the heat of the moment.

As already said, an employer can dismiss you for any reason (other than a few exceptional reasons which are not relevant here) if you have not worked there for two years so the employer has every right to dismiss you.

It may be possible that the outcome of a disciplinary may have seen you being given a warning rather than being dismissed but the fact you resigned changed the situation and the employer probably felt that you needed to go as your relationship had broken down.

So, what can you do now? You could write and ask for a reference and include some words along the lines of 'I am sorry that we have parted company in this way. I also wish to apologise for my uncharacteristic outburst and 'silly' remark said in the heat of the moment blah blah blah

Of course this is likely to be difficult for you as you no doubt feel 'wronged' but concentrate on getting what you want - a reasonable reference.

Other option is to suck it up and move on.

nicechap

Comms69 wrote: »

....

Basically what you were told last time: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5749695

Brilliant! I wonder why people repeat the same thing?

sangie595

nicechap wrote: »

Brilliant! I wonder why people repeat the same thing?

Because they are hoping that the nasty truth had changed and they now live in fairy tale land? The OP was very politely warned that resignation wouldn't make this goo away and not to believe the manager. She chose to ignore this and is now surprised that that advice was correct. And now CAB and ACAS are similarly unhelpful!

OP... You may, as suggested, swallow your pride and crawl for even a neutral reference (assuming this is no form of regulated role, in which case no amount of crawling will help). But there is nothing else that will improve your position, and a great deal that will make it worse. Currently you think that "dismissed" is the worst they can do? How about "this person was suspended for gross misconduct and dismissed after threatening her line manager by saying that her husband was going to come and beat him up"? Sound better? No? Be very careful about asking for "facts" - because your facts and their facts are somewhat different, and providing the employer tells the truth in a reference, they are perfectly entitled to use their facts.

And frankly, given the attitude here, I'd suggest leaving well enough alone, because your approach leaves something to be desired in respect of how you "thank" people for helping you. If this is symptomatic of the way you conduct yourself with others, I'd suggest that speaking to the employer again will make your reference worse, not better. And that isn't my "personal opinion" - it's the professional opinion of someone with an awful lot of employment law experience who knows full well what arrogance and threats get employees who don't have a leg to stand on. You got yourself into this. No matter what, you did the threatening. No excuse for threats. So don't dig yourself a deeper hole. If you can't convincingly be decent with other people, then at least don't make things worse than they are.

FelineFan

Ok thank you ALL for your comments. Nothing more to say.

Time to, as pmlindyloo says, suck it up and move on. I will not be in contact with the company now things are clearer.

Just for info - I will not be, nor had I ever intended to claim any JSA for the very reasons already pointed out.

Merry Christmas!

[Deleted User]

I wouldn't worry about it. And park it until if/any reference causes issue. Could be use of clumsy or auto wording.

A fixed term contract that ends can be classed as dismissal.

I currently have a contract that uses the work expiry when termination of employment could be used.

I've done a kind of manual job for the last month, today I fitted in an interview for a nice 18k telesales job - no questions asked beyond situational relating to the position applied for.

All the best.

FelineFan

Thanks for that keepcalmandkeepoutofdebt

Food for thought.

All the best to you too