Can they do this?

betterlatethannever

(asking on behalf of a family member)
I'm guessing the answer is, 'its their business, they can do what they like' but thought i'd ask.:o

So, they've been working for the same company for 4 years and, on occasions such as Christmas, have to work on a Sunday, although normal work days are Mon-Sat

Each year Sunday working has been paid at double time.:D

This year, they were asked if they (all the staff) were happy to work on Sundays in the run up to Christmas, and, as the extra money comes in handy in January, they all agreed.

After they'd agreed they were told that they would receive an extra day off instead of double pay.:mad:

Can they do this?

Shouldn't it be two days off ?

Thanks for any help

ps, have checked their contract but no mention of double pay or days off

robpw2

, TOIL must be agreed in writing by the employee and the employer. It cannot be assumed or enforced by either side, which is important to note if you are being expected to work overtime and are being given TOIL or money when you would prefer the opposite.

sangie595

robpw2 wrote: »

, TOIL must be agreed in writing by the employee and the employer. It cannot be assumed or enforced by either side, which is important to note if you are being expected to work overtime and are being given TOIL or money when you would prefer the opposite.

I'm quite perplexed by this advice. Could you please quote the legislation which it is based on? I ask, simply because I know it doesn't exist!

OP, if an employer wishes to offer time off in lieu of payment for overtime, they can do so. As you correctly observe - it's their business and they can do as they like. There is absolutely no requirement for the employee to agree to it - but the employee is, of course, unless it is contractual overtime, entitled to refuse the additional hours. There is also no requirement for overtime to be compensated at higher rates of pay or "double time off".

The lesson in this would appear to be that one should ask, not assume, what is on offer before agreeing to work additional hours. A mistake they probably won't make again.

I would suggest keeping a record of the additional hours worked and ask the manager to sign it each time so that there is a verifiable system for keeping track of what time is owed - this would be common practice in places that operate time off in lieu.

ohreally

Look to argue custom and practice. If the employer is intransigent, I'd be inclined to be unavailable.

TogeatherStronger83

Unless there is a statement in the contract saying that Sunday will be paid as double or when the initial request to employees to work Sunday this year it was stated that they would be paid double then the short answer is that the company are well within there rights to do this.

robpw2

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm quite perplexed by this advice. Could you please quote the legislation which it is based on? I ask, simply because I know it doesn't exist!

OP, if an employer wishes to offer time off in lieu of payment for overtime, they can do so. As you correctly observe - it's their business and they can do as they like. There is absolutely no requirement for the employee to agree to it - but the employee is, of course, unless it is contractual overtime, entitled to refuse the additional hours. There is also no requirement for overtime to be compensated at higher rates of pay or "double time off".

The lesson in this would appear to be that one should ask, not assume, what is on offer before agreeing to work additional hours. A mistake they probably won't make again.

I would suggest keeping a record of the additional hours worked and ask the manager to sign it each time so that there is a verifiable system for keeping track of what time is owed - this would be common practice in places that operate time off in lieu.

http://www.workingrights.co.uk/time-off-lieu-working-additional-hours.html i refer you to the above information

your right there is no legal requirement to pay extra

getmore4less

Worth a moan to try and draw out the real reasons behind the change in policy.

If the extra time is revenue/profit generating but rather than pay they need to reduce staff at other times could be a sign of financial problems.

One thing they must do is get it documented and make sure you use the TOIL before holidays.


(check there is not a misunderstanding and they are offering pay and TOIL)

ReadingTim

ohreally wrote: »

Look to argue custom and practice. If the employer is intransigent, I'd be inclined to be unavailable.

You'd be at a tribunal or arbitration if you were properly arguing that, and probably beyond the point of no return in terms of good employee/employer relationships...

However, you could say that in the absence of an explanation as to what the "deal" was, you based your decision on what happened in previous years, ie double pay. Now that the employer has clarified this year's arrangements, you have reconsidered your earlier position, and are unavailable on the Sundays in question.

Unfortunately, there's no way to force the employer to do what they did last year, or give 2 extra holidays instead of 1 - they have to decide to offer it. That said, if everyone says the same thing as you, they might come round to making that decision quite quickly....

Andy_L

betterlatethannever wrote: »

After they'd agreed they were told that they would receive an extra day off instead of double pay.:mad:

Can they do this?

Shouldn't it be two days off ?

Is that a day off and plain time pay for working on the Sunday or just a day off in lieu?

agrinnall

robpw2 wrote: »

http://www.workingrights.co.uk/time-off-lieu-working-additional-hours.html i refer you to the above information

That's not legislation though, which is what you were asked for. I don't know who is right but unless you can cite the Act that confirms your position I'd tend to side with sangie.

sangie595

robpw2 wrote: »

http://www.workingrights.co.uk/time-off-lieu-working-additional-hours.html i refer you to the above information

your right there is no legal requirement to pay extra

"Common practice" is not the same thing as "the law". Thank you for the reference to "information ". And the law is where? What you said simply isn't the law.

BTW - the person you quote on this matter is a BA of something unspecified. I am a BA and an MA and PhD in employment law. But not a lawyer per se. On the other hand, I also don't have a website, the footer of which says that this is not legal advice and don't rely on what I tell you! You should always read the small print. it's really important. Your advice - and their advice - is wrong.