PCN for not displaying permit at hospital

Hospickle_Parking

My wife works at a hospital the car park of which is managed by Park Solve (BPA member). She pays £x per month for a car park permit and she's done that for almost 10 years.

This afternoon she called the hospital Car Parking department to tell them that she'd noticed her permit was 4 months out of date (though she has been paying monthly on time) and she asked for a new permit. In that 4 months she'd not received a ticket. 30 minutes later a warden posted a ticket on her car. It's possible that this is a coincidence. More likely though is that the parking department is run by the ppc.

The question is, who should she appeal to in the first instance? PALS won't be interested. The car parking department seems to be being managed by the scammers themselves so an appeal to them seems pointless.

Or, should she just appeal to Park Solve, get a POPLA code when the appeal is refused and take it from there? (To complicate matters the car is lease-hired too).

Coupon-mad

should she just appeal to Park Solve, get a POPLA code when the appeal is refused and take it from there? (To complicate matters the car is lease-hired too).

Yes, appeal on day 26 as lessee/hirer, not saying who was driving. See the NEWBIES thread.

Johno100

I'd also be contacting the head of facilities management at the hospital trust/board. The "Car Parking Department" at the hospital may or may not be colluding with the parking company but perhaps the higher management would be willing to intervene.

Hospickle_Parking

I understand the reason to not mention the driver's name - I've checked this site - but this is a work car park and my wife pays for the permit. Wouldn't it be reasonable for them to assume she was the driver? She parks in the same spot every day!

(If she follows the advice above and appeals to higher management at the hospital, won't she have to say who was driving? She can't appeal anonymously in this instance can she? If she did wouldn't that mean there'd be less chance of getting the ticket cancelled?

It's all so bxxxxx confusing!

Coupon-mad

but this is a work car park and my wife pays for the permit. Wouldn't it be reasonable for them to assume she was the driver?

Nope, and the parking firm do not have her employee data, they can't look her up by name. And hirer/lessee appeals are NAILED ON to win at POPLA, much more chance than any other.

She can't appeal anonymously in this instance can she?

No. Appeal as lessee/hirer. She WILL win in the end, because of that tactic.

Hospickle_Parking

Just about to make an online appeal by using the template but I realise that there isn't one to use!

It's a hire car with and a windscreen ticket. I'm at day 27 of the 28 so need to submit the appeal today. The first link on the newbies thread isn't working and the other two appear to not suit my case. Can anyone re-institute that first link because I think it must be helpful!

Cheers

Redx

this is a copy and paste of the first link which I have tried and works

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703794

the link in post #1 of the NEWBIES sticky thread fails , but the copy and paste works, so I have reproduced it above

the other 2 links for the edna basher and other poster both work if you click on them and both work using copy and paste too

Hospickle_Parking

Thanks but I don't think those templates are specifically relevant to me, the keeper of a lease-hired car.

A windscreen ticket was issued. I haven't had any written correspondence from the PPC.

Should I simply use the standard BPA appeal from the Newbies thread at this stage?

The facts of the case are that the PCN was issued to the driver who had forgotten to renew a parking permit at the hospital although was continuing to pay for it. I can't mention any of this in an appeal or a judge would reasonably assume that the driver was the person to whom the permit was issued.

It's slightly more complicated too because the PPC's wardens visit the parking manager's office in the hospital and this hospital employee told these wardens whose car to ticket - I can't prove that but it's obvious.

Hospickle_Parking

,,,, and on the PCN the reason for the ticket being issued is put as "Out of Date Permit"

So, can I really claim the lettering on the signs is inadequate?

Fruitcake

Hospickle_Parking wrote: »

,,,, and on the PCN the reason for the ticket being issued is put as "Out of Date Permit"

So, can I really claim the lettering on the signs is inadequate?

Stop trying to overthink this.

You appeal and it is then up to the scammers to prove you wrong. It's not your job to assume they are correct, it's theirs to disprove. Do the signs meet each and every requirement of the BPA CoP, and I mean every requirement? Are they really the same as the ones from the Beavis case? Do they meet Lord Denning's "Red Hand Rule" criteria?

Please just follow the advice given.

Hospickle_Parking

Ok So I'm going with...

I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

My street
My Town
My Postcode
I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) now it is proven that in this instance, the registered keeper is not the "keeper" (as defined under POFA), Civil Enforcement has no reason to contact Lex Autolease again regarding this PCN

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either offer me a POPLA code or cancel the charge.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

...

Thanks for your help.