Help please! My small claims hearing against UKPC is in around 20 days...

Coupon-mad

I sent a letter to court a while ago asking for the judgement to be removed from my credit file within 14 days. I have just received back a letter confirming that the judgement is ordered to be set aside (dating back to January when the previous hearing was), however 14 days from when I wrote to them was quite a while ago now, so I am wondering what my next steps are on that behalf?

Do a free online credit check and see if it has gone.

Chris1a

No CCJ anymore :-)

My cost schedule was sent off ok and I will be attending the hearing next week by myself.

Thanks again for everyone who has helped me out preparing for this.

I will update you once I have an outcome after the hearing

Coupon-mad

Be ready to pick apart all their evidence on the day, take (as well as your court bundle of everything) a copy of the POFA Schedule 4 printed out, x 3 to hand out, to ask the Judge to compare the NTK wording, particularly with 8(2)f the statutory 'keeper liability warning' that I mentioned might not be 100% stated correctly in old NTKs, sent just months after the POFA was enacted, back when PPCs were even more useless at the wording than they are now:

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I seem to recall, back in 2013/24, UKPC NTKs won't have had the right 8(2)f warning

And read these two cases mentioned/linked for another poster here, to know which way a Judge might go in your case, re your lease, so you are prepared to argue that the imposition of an ex-clamper who then made residents' lives hell, is not a regulation that could have been fairly imposed under excuse of any term in a lease:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74056067#Comment_74056067

Don't assume primacy of contract is a given; you have to show it is! You can argue about the doctrine of good faith, as well, and fairness of terms in a case which can certainly be fully distinguished from PE v Beavis.

Here's a case v UKPC/SCS where I wrote out an extra point 8 for someone's defence, food for thought that you can use as well, think about how the 'pass/permit' was handed over and whether you were told (by a third party where UKPC still had ample opportunity to keep full control over the t&cs being communicated) you were expected to be agreeing a contract, or 'obliged' to display it for fear of £100 or £90 fine, or whatever:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74051518#Comment_74051518

I know you are at hearing stage next week but you can use statute law in your defence and do not need to have filed it (e.g. the CPUTRs 2008) as exhibits, just as you should take the POFA 2012 Sch4 along with you too and don't need to have filed that in advance either, as it's statutory law.

Chris1a

The final hearing took place the other day. It was quite tricky actually, as the judge was really picking at my evidence and wouldn't give anything away for well over an hour. After a lot of questioning, debating and arguing over contract/lease wording we were asked to leave the room, having to sweat it out for a good 15 minutes in a consultation room.

After returning from adjournment and being in court for a good 2 hours, we were finally told that the judge had reached a decision..

The claim was dismissed :-) on the grounds that ukpc had no right to operate, as there was no wording in my lease giving them that right (or something like that).

I then had to argue over costs as the judge said I am not entitled to the set aside fee & only 1 day worth of losses, just for this particular hearing. I was only offered less than half of what I outlined in the cost schedule & I eventually agreed to that.

So, I am now wondering a few things:

1. Am I able to have the case notes or the judgement at least, sent to me in writing & how can I make that happen? (Their solicitor took notes throughout)

2. Do I have to write to ukpc asking for the refund the judge offered me?

3. Is the only way to claim back my other costs for the previous hearing and the set aside via a counter claim?

4. Another resident is talking about making a joint counterclaim but against the management company who brought on ukpc. Is that the best move to make & what Is the most we will lose if we don't successfully win the counter claim?

System

joint counterclaim but against the management company who brought on ukpc.

If it succeeds you will all get your money back - and it will be charged to the current residents under their costs agreement. The MA does not in itself have any cash, only the current residents cash.

Better to go after UKPC for the money.

The_Deep

I am surprised that your set aside costs were not refunded, did the judge give a reason?

Now complain to your MP in the strongest of term. IMO, and I am not in possession of all the facts, you have had a bum deal.

Chris1a

Thanks IamEmanresu,

I agree that ukpc are the ones who should be paying up here & that is a good point on the residents money being all that the MA have to play with.

The Deep, I did question the judge for a reason and I think she said that isn't part of the cost for this hearing & tried saying I just can't claim that back. I kind of argued that, but gave in easily.

Should I wait to see what comes in writing from the court or can I write to them asking for confirmation of the outcome? Should I also follow up with ukpc asap asking for my costs that were awarded to be paid or can I appeal/reject the offer and push for the set aside fee as well without counterclaiming?

The_Deep

Consider sending UKPC a letter before action for your out of pockets costs.

https://www.lovetts.co.uk/letter-before-action-template

Coupon-mad

Well done!

I would wait for the order and your ordinary costs, then send UKPC a LBC for the set aside fee which is a tangible and provable loss, and threaten to add the managing agent to the case if UKPC do not refund your set aside fee within (say) 21 days. And tell UKPC that you will be telling the MA that the case upheld the primacy of contract of the residents and that UKPC had no authority to charge residents.

The_Deep

If the signs are an attempt to obtain monies by misrepresentation, (fraud) would not a resident be within their rights to remove them, just as they might remove a fly poster advertising a car boot sale?