Please help: Mis-sold house, who’s at fault?

Rob-123

Desperate for some help on this one I know it’s a long post!

I moved into a house with my wife to start a family in May 2017, we bought the house as advertised by the EA’s as a 5 bedroom, with the main bedroom being a loft conversion. As it is now cold, the room doesn’t retain heat so had someone round to check insulation - which they don’t think is up to scratch. I contacted council to get a copy of the building reg certificate and was told they weren’t aware the conversion had taken place and therefore was never inspected, or signed off although it did have planning permission in 2005.

The homebuyers report states: ‘Ensure legal representative obtains all relevant certificates for loft conversion’. (I guess this covers them?)

On the solicitors Report on Title paperwork they have written: ‘Our search has revealed a building regulation for a loft conversion, however due to the age of this, the sellers solicitors have not provided a copy. (If my solicitor had no proof when the conversion was complete as it wasn’t signed off, surely their arguement of ‘due to the age of the works they don’t need to supply the certificate’ doesn’t stand?)

On the fixtures/fittings paperwork completed by the vendors, they have written loft conversion in 2005, and then It says do you have copies of building reg certificates, to which they have ticked ‘enclosed’ but the only certificate we ever recieved was for the electrical installation to the loft which is dated May 2016. (This is surely misleading as at the time I thought they had enclosed a copy to their solicitor?)

The council is now saying a surveyor will need to come round and it may need to be brought up to spec which could cost £1000’s.

I bought the house thinking the solicitor knew something I didn’t about the age of the work, and therefore the sellers solicitor didn’t need to supply a copy of the certificate. But there is no way the solicitor could have know when it was complete. Anyone know where I stand?

eddddy

Rob-123 wrote: »

The council is now saying a surveyor will need to come round and it may need to be brought up to spec which could cost £1000’s.

If the conversion was done around 2005, I assume you mean: if you decide that you want building control sign-off, it could cost £1000s.

For a conversion done in 2005, the council cannot force you to do anything.


Perhaps that's what the solicitor was telling you - that you didn't need the certificate for 'anti-enforcement' reasons. But I guess your argument is that if no certificate ever existed, it raises a question mark over of the 'quality' of the conversion.

I guess you could raise your concerns with the solicitor, and ask them to clarify their comments.

bobobski

Perhaps you should have read your solicitor's report and all ancillary documents more thoroughly and asked questions before committing to buy this property? Just a thought.

LandyAndy

eddddy wrote: »

If the conversion was done around 2005, I assume you mean: if you decide that you want building control sign-off, it could cost £1000s.

For a conversion done in 2005, the council cannot force you to do anything.


.

I suspect the OP is faced with spending at least some money to make the room habitable in winter but, as you say, no one can make them do it.

davidmcn

Not sure how much of a "mis-sell" it is, if you had been told that it was never signed off and that it didn't necessarily comply with current regulations in relation to e.g. insulation. In any event you shouldn't really be relying on historical consents as a sign of the current quality of the house - that's what your surveyor (or your own eyes) are for.

Mutton_Geoff

Although disruptive, it's fairly easy to retrospectively insulate the room. I have just done this in my latest house which is a coach house conversion with all upstairs rooms in the roof section.


I took the plasterboard off, battened the rafters, fitted 75mm celotex and then reboarded (used soundboard to reduce traffic noise). Then had it skimmed and decorated.


For even better insulation, there are products like TLX gold that you could use as well but that would mean taking the roof off.


£5k-£10k should sort it but since that buys a lot of energy, you might be better off just turning the wick up on your heating.


Bear in mind, if it's too cold in the winter, it is going to be too hot in the summer since insulation works both ways.

Surrey_EA

eddddy wrote: »

If the conversion was done around 2005, I assume you mean: if you decide that you want building control sign-off, it could cost £1000s.

For a conversion done in 2005, the council cannot force you to do anything.

Although highly unusual, it is possible for a local authority to obtain a court order to remedy any breach of building regulations, and this enforcement action has no time limit.

moneyistooshorttomention

Surrey_EA wrote: »

Although highly unusual, it is possible for a local authority to obtain a court order to remedy any breach of building regulations, and this enforcement action has no time limit.

It would probably be useful to the OP to know specific instances in which Councils have done that and how long "after the event" they did so. Also how much Council Taxpayers money a Council would have to spend to obtain a court order (ie work out the likelihood a Council would spend that much of our money on something like this).

Surrey_EA

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

It would probably be useful to the OP to know specific instances in which Councils have done that and how long "after the event" they did so. Also how much Council Taxpayers money a Council would have to spend to obtain a court order (ie work out the likelihood a Council would spend that much of our money on something like this).

It's almost certainly never going to happen, but at the risk of sounding pedantic, I was clarifying the statement made earlier that the council cannot force the OP to do anything, which was incorrect.

teneighty

Rob-123 wrote: »

Desperate for some help on this one I know it’s a long post!

I moved into a house with my wife to start a family in May 2017, we bought the house as advertised by the EA’s as a 5 bedroom, with the main bedroom being a loft conversion. As it is now cold, the room doesn’t retain heat so had someone round to check insulation - which they don’t think is up to scratch. I contacted council to get a copy of the building reg certificate and was told they weren’t aware the conversion had taken place and therefore was never inspected, or signed off although it did have planning permission in 2005. Planning Permission or Building Regulations Approval? (or both)

The homebuyers report states: ‘Ensure legal representative obtains all relevant certificates for loft conversion’. (I guess this covers them?)

On the solicitors Report on Title paperwork they have written: ‘Our search has revealed a building regulation for a loft conversion, however due to the age of this, the sellers solicitors have not provided a copy. (If my solicitor had no proof when the conversion was complete as it wasn’t signed off, surely their arguement of ‘due to the age of the works they don’t need to supply the certificate’ doesn’t stand?) Minimum the solicitor should have insisted on was a copy of the Building Regulations ApprovalNotice and preferably a copy of the Completion Certificate. You solicitor has made a fundamental error here.

On the fixtures/fittings paperwork completed by the vendors, they have written loft conversion in 2005, and then It says do you have copies of building reg certificates, to which they have ticked ‘enclosed’ but the only certificate we ever recieved was for the electrical installation to the loft which is dated May 2016. (This is surely misleading as at the time I thought they had enclosed a copy to their solicitor?) Again your solicitor has made a mistake by accepting the wrong certificates.

The council is now saying a surveyor will need to come round and it may need to be brought up to spec which could cost £1000’s.

I bought the house thinking the solicitor knew something I didn’t about the age of the work, and therefore the sellers solicitor didn’t need to supply a copy of the certificate. But there is no way the solicitor could have know when it was complete. Anyone know where I stand?

If the loft conversion was done without the work being inspected and the insulation is substandard it begs the question what else is wrong..fire precautions?...structural work?
etc. etc.

Rob-123

Thanks very much for all your comments.

Edddy - yes planning permission was granted in December 2004, plans were drawn up by an architect in February 2005, we have both of those copies as they were left in the house by the previous owners, but we don’t know for sure it was completed it 2005. We only have what the previous owners have written in the fixtures/fittings paperwork. No receipts/certificates apart from elec install in loft dated May 2016 for some reason.

Bobobski - thanks for the input. I did think I understood everything, I thought that what the solicitors were saying was that there is a building reg certificate, but due to it being over 10 years old it didn’t need to be produced, also the fact that the vendors wrote that it had a certificate in the fixtures/fittings paperwork.

Davidmcn - I wasn’t told that it didn’t have a building reg certificate, intact I thought that it did have one from the way the solicitor worded it, and what the vendors wrote. If I’d been told I certainly wouldn’t have gone ahead with the purchase until it had been certified

My concern is that I’ve bought the house in good faith, I think my solicitor should have done more to help me understand and warn me that there may not have been a certificate, and that the vendors made it seem like it was certified. I guess what I’m asking is, if a surveyor comes round and says we don’t know it was done 10 years ago as it was never signed off, will I have to take it down, or if I have to pay a lot for working on it, so I have a case against either my solicitor or surveyor or the previous owners?