Unemployment Down, Wages up - any explanations?

GreatApe

Blueday wrote: »

Your argument assumes that low status jobs are always low paid but this wasn't the case before the influx of cheap migrant labour in the early 2000s. Low status, pleasant jobs used to mean low pay. Low status, unpleasant jobs meant high pay.

When I was younger I did some pretty grotty jobs but was paid very well for them and I would do these jobs again (even gut fish) if the pay was right.

Sure maybe on the margin some things were better paid before but the large influx of migrants dont really hurt the locals wage or status prospects. If you look at somewhere like Qatar which has more migrants than natives. Their natives are all well paid and none of them work the low status jobs. They were all pushed up the skill and pay ladder

The same is roughly true in the uk but since migration is slow and steady its harder to see.

I am not pro or anti migration. I think overall its probably good economically but perhaps it is not so good culturally. But in that case most the EU migrants are more similar culturally than the none EU migrants which are of a similar size so we would have been better off cracking down on non EU migrants than EU migrants.

Either way life is too short to second guess all your decisions if its out its out.
I would prefer a second vote once the terms are known but of course the government should say no to that request all the way up to the last moment. I voted to stay I was marginal voter but I would look at the offer and would vote out if I thought economically and socially it was a net positive.

mrginge

Let me just understand this cells. You are using Qatar’s use of immigrant labour as a comparable example to the uk?

Trying to extract some economic mastery from a system that has been described as such....

The state has long faced criticism over its “kafala” system, under which foreign workers are sponsored by their employers, giving bosses almost absolute control over their employees’ lives.

Lower wages than expected, confiscation of passports and slum-like living quarters are problems commonly reported by Qatari labour unions and human rights monitors.

In 2013 it was estimated that at least 1,200 foreign nationals working on World Cup construction sites had died because of poor health and safety measures.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/qatar-minimum-wage-workers-migrant-introduction-salary-pay-a8022226.html


...doesn’t hold much water with me i’m afraid.

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

We need a contraction in things like coffee shops barbers cafes nail bars etc so if there is one every 50 meters rather than every 25 meters it will be fine.

Why? They seem to be satisfying a demand and generating money. So money laundering aside, what reason do you have for wanting less of them?

lisyloo

Sorry to hear that. It's not the norm

I would agree with since.
Since we've had cheap labour available we've had more people getting their cars washed by hand (the brushes are bad for paintwork so automation fails here) and more people buying their coffee from barristas rather than machines (automation fails again).

It's also worth noting that people might pay to get their nails/hair done professionally if it's cheap, whereas they'd just do it themselves if it's expensive.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Why? They seem to be satisfying a demand and generating money. So money laundering aside, what reason do you have for wanting less of them?

Do you think people should resign themselves to low paid employment? Does little to fund a world class health care system that everyone craves. Nor produces income for the country as a whole. For decades Governments have been attempting to rebalance the economy. A high dependence on services will restrict potential future growth.

kabayiri

lisyloo wrote: »

I would agree with since.
Since we've had cheap labour available we've had more people getting their cars washed by hand (the brushes are bad for paintwork so automation fails here) and more people buying their coffee from barristas rather than machines (automation fails again).
...

There's a serious issue with economic slavery; and illegal practices in the manual car wash world. Just check out the latest edition of the Forecourt Petrol trade magazine for the details.

You can't make money by having 5 blokes wash your car for a fiver. It doesn't make sense. Get to know them; go into the office; and it isn't long before you get some amazing offers. I am in little doubt where some of their income comes from.

peachyprice

ilovehouses wrote: »

Or choose not to do them at all. I can't see Brits taking to the fields of Lincolnshire to pick Brussels Sprouts in this weather.

Makes you wonder how we ever managed to farm before free movement.

michaels

lisyloo wrote: »

I would agree with since.
Since we've had cheap labour available we've had more people getting their cars washed by hand (the brushes are bad for paintwork so automation fails here) and more people buying their coffee from barristas rather than machines (automation fails again).

It's also worth noting that people might pay to get their nails/hair done professionally if it's cheap, whereas they'd just do it themselves if it's expensive.

I bet if hand car washes were more expensive because cheap migrant labour was not available then there might have been more investment in car wash machines that don't damage the paint. Sure fewer people might pay to have their car washed but productivity would also be higher as more of the washes that were done would be by a machine.

Even barristas and nail technicians can be replaced by robots as is happening in Japan where labour is scarce due to a falling and aging population.

whatmichaelsays

michaels wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42337659

Unemployment down, wage growth up.

What could have caused it? Can't be the reduction in inward migration as we have been assured by businesses on multiple occasions that this is having no impact at all on wages or productivity.....

Well given that there are several economies in Europe that
a) have higher levels of net migration than the UK, and
b) higher wage growth than the UK,

there's probably some credence to the argument that migration isn't the sole, or even the biggest, driver of wage stagnation.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

You can't make money by having 5 blokes wash your car for a fiver. It doesn't make sense.

Better living than they would earn at home, that's if they can find any work at all. How much cash goes undeclared as income to the tax authorities? Run on a co-operative model where the net income is divided equally between all involved. Probably works very well.