County Court Judgement - Stressing Out

Fighting_UD

Hello Everyone

I hope someone can please help and guide me on fighting a a County Court Judgement (CCJ) that has appeared on my friends name and the keeper REALLY DON’T WANT TO PAY!!

It states at the top of the letter “Judgement for Claimant (In Default)

My friend recently found out through a credit report that he/she have a CCJ against their name from Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL) ordering to pay £348. The keeper called the Northampton County Court and found out that the fine is to be paid before 27/12/2017 or defend via N244 form to get the case ‘set aside’

HISTORY
Received a PCN from CEL in early Jan /2017 (not exactly sure) on a private land. The PCN demanded a payment of £100 to be paid within 28 days reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

• The Keeper received the PCN after has it passed it 14 days’ notice period

Realised that the keeper visited a restaurant along with a few friends for dinner and a camera mounted on the hotel wall in the same compound picked this up. Keeper went to the restaurant on a few days after, showed them this PCN, and argued that they did not ask me for the car registration nor informed the keeper to enter car registration in the small device they operate. Also told them there was no clear signage informing their customer to use that machine to register their cars as they enter the restaurant.

The restaurant manager advised to email the PCN with a copy of the bill as a proof of my visit to the restaurant to CEL and they will cancel the PCN. He mentioned he did not have powers to cancel the PCN. Therefore the keeper sent email to CEL on same day requesting to cancel the charge. The keeper did not hear from them.


UNFORTUNATELY THE KEEPER TOLD CEL THAT HE/SHE VISITED THE RESTAURANT AND FORGOT TO REGISTER THE CAR ONTO THE REGISTRATION MACHINE THE HOTEL OPERATES!

The keeper moved house on mid jan 2017. Royal mail re-direction service set up from April 2017 to July 2017 and within this period no docs were received from CEL.

As the keeper now have a CCJ I would be grateful if you guys can advise on next steps and chances the keeper has of winning if CCJ is contested based on (1) document sent to old address & (2) genuine visitor the restaurant with bill to prove using the N244 form. Understand that there is a £255 fee to get the case set-aside.


The keeper is still within the 30 days period before it affects the credit file.


CEL were not notified of the new address in correspondence sent to them by the keeper requesting to cancel the PCN in April 2017. The keeper picked up a letter from the old address as notified by a friend.


The keeper have been informed by the county court that if this case is not considered by the judge to set aside, it will stay on my credit file as ‘satisfied’ even after paying the full amount which could affect the credit rating. This is because the judge will most like look at the case after end of Dec 2017 due to the time it take to process the defence. Is this right?

waamo

Read this and take a good, long read of post 2

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Fighting_UD

Thank you Waamo. This is what I have been going through post #2 all day today having joined the forum.


I am preparing my draft defence proposal to discuss here once ready but would like some advise on what specifics the keeper should develop the defence on.

The keeper have no details of the particulars of the claims and seems like the keeper have passed a stage to acknowledge the claim too!

The_Deep

There is no need to get stressed, it happens all the time. The procedure is relatively straight forward, (but not painting by numbers), and in this case, they have shot themselves in the foot by being greedy.

There is much information on google on how to set aside these judgements; on here, pepipoo, Parking Cowboys, Legal Beagles, Court Service website, etc., etc., etc.

Coupon-mad

As I received the PCN on 13/1/2017 has it passed it 14 days’ notice period??

Yes but how does that really matter, seeing as CEL PCNs are not POFA ones anyway, regardless of date.

The point being, a non-POFA PCN is always a non-POFA PCN, and it's as much about the content of the document, the words, as it is about dates too. CEL can only hold a known driver liable, and you do not have to assist, even if you knew who parked (which you don't).

I have no details of the particulars of the claims and seems like I have passed a stage to acknowledge the claim too!

Happens a lot v CEL, but people still get set asides.

As well as the NEWBIES thread, search this forum for 'CEL CCJ' or 'CEL set aside' and you will find other successes, some of whom got their £255 back straight away at the set aside hearing. Others had to claim costs back later. No-one lost, none proceeded to a substantive hearing.

CEL rely on catching people out and are not often up for turning up to hearings re cases.

Quentin

Fighting_UD wrote: »

I have been informed by the county court when I called them that if I lose and pay the full amount following a ruling from judge, it will stay on my credit file as ‘satisfied’ which could affect the credit rating. This is because the judge will most like look at the case after 27/12/2017 due to the time it take to process the defence. Is this right?

When they tell you if you "lose", what they mean is that if the judge at the hearing throws out your set aside application that you cannot get the CCJ removed, and that is correct. (Subsequently paying it off would result in your register entry being marked as "satisfied", though that still will affect your credit status.)


If you win the set aside (thereby getting the CCJ expunged from the register) but had to face another claim and then lost, you would be able to pay off the "new" ccj and your record would remain "clean".


Although it's your call, do read up on the set aside successes reported here, and the lack of subsequent court action from posters dealing with CEL!!

Fighting_UD

Thank you guys. As I am reading the forums I am gaining confidence.


It is pretty clear that as the CCJ has gone to the old address & the keeper have a very strong change to get the case set-aside.


As you guys have mentioned above, it will all depend on how the keeper prepares the defence statement and the content of it.


One thing I could do with your assistance in clarifying is that as the keeper contested (sent CEL letters requesting to cancel my PCN) while the letters were sent to the old address can this work against the keeper? or is CEL liable to get my correct address?


Many Thanks!

Fighting_UD

"UNFORTUNATELY THE KEEPER TOLD THEM THAT HE VISITED THE RESTAURANT AND FORGOT TO REGISTER MY CAR ONTO THE REGISTRATION MACHINE THE HOTEL OPERATES! (A BIG MISTAKE ??)

Do you think this constitutes confessing that the keeper of the vehicle was the driver??


Thank you!

nosferatu1001

No, "WE" visited. More than one person. More than one who could have been the driver.

SO EDIT YOUR POST! why are you posting at all about eh drivers identity on here?!?!?

It is NOT *solely* that it was sent to the old address -it was the old address AND that they waited quite a few months before issuing a claim form, and took no reasonable steps to ensure they still had a good address for service. You should show:
1) You had a redirect set up from x to y dates
2) Yo uwere registered on electoral roll / on utility bills / etc - ie IF they had looked, you werre "there to be found"

Fighting_UD

Thank you guys. I am just being honest here...


The truth is that the register keeper sent CEL emails on before relocating stating that the keeper visited the restaurant and forget to register the car onto the restaurants vehicle registration system. Does is clarify that keeper was the driver?

The keeper went to my old address and picked up another letter from CEL and replied to them again in April 2017 requested to cancel the PCN as it was not £140 from £100.

As the keeper have responded to their letter picked up from the old address after relocation can this do any harm to the case defence for set-aside?

Do you think there is a strong case as the keeper was a genuine visitor to the restaurant and have the bill to prove it?


Many Thanks for your help!

Quentin

Surely the driver visited the restaurant?

Are you saying that the keeper admitted in writing to being the driver??