Equal is Unfair

Moby

economic wrote: »

wealth is not just measured by money. if you have £100 and i have £10000 there is clearly inequality. but what did i do to make the £1000? if i got this by producing goods and services to you who spent £10 and are now left with £90 surely you gained value from the £10 purchase that exceeds £10?

so what is wrong with this inequality that clearly exists between you and i? the answer is nothing.

If only the world was so simple! what about all the inherited wealth and land handed down and sheltered. Why assume that goods and services provide value? Consumerism often turns us into muppets that don't even realise we are being exploited. What about the power disparties between different groups in society and the inequality that results from that? Do you think Africa regards the trading relationship it has had with the West in the last 300 years as a simple fair transaction?

economic

Moby wrote: »

If only the world was so simple! what about all the inherited wealth and land handed down and sheltered. Why assume that goods and services provide value? Consumerism often turns us into muppets that don't even realise we are being exploited. What about the power disparties between different groups in society and the inequality that results from that? Do you think Africa regards the trading relationship it has had with the West in the last 300 years as a simple fair transaction?

Good and services provide value to those who buy them clearly as otherwise they wouldn't buy them. they provide value for those selling them as otherwise they wouldn't produce them.

Consumerism in itself isn't bad. Its when people buy stuff to feel better about themselves in an obsessive way which is a problem and this is a mental problem which is the persons responsibility to fix, not the people providing the goods and services.

There is nothing wrong with inherited wealth. It has been earnt by those who pass away and they can chose what to do with it. This wealth does not sit there doing nothing. It gets invested, it provides a home for offspring, it provides a business for the offspring to run etc etc.

If Africa thought there would have been a better deal with the West and are capable of pulling off that deal they would have done it. Africans have a significantly lower IQ on average then the West and this is a significant factor at the population level for things like voting decisions, creating businesses, negotiating deals etc.

Moby

You wouldn't have believed we had a crash going by what you've written above lol! Goods and services sometimes provide value and sometimes they don't. Consumerism is often defined by greed and exploitation. Look at the betting companies and how they are now being challenged. Also it may be hard for you to understand this but often people with mental health problems can't take responsibility for their welfare for the self evident reason that they have a problem in the first place! Inheritance tax should be 100%. Morally speaking, people who stand to inherit large sums haven’t done anything to earn that money. An accident of birth placed them in a comparatively wealthy family and they’ve benefited from that their whole life. In a world where we have decided to have a state why should dead people get generous rates of tax and why should their offspring benefit because they haven't done anything to earn the money being taxed have they! Africa has been exploited by the west for centuries and it's nothing to do with IQ which is now generally accepted to be a risible measure of anything of value anyway!

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

If only the world was so simple! what about all the inherited wealth and land handed down and sheltered.

Fantastic things, one of the biggest things that differentiate the rich nations from the poor is that the rich countries have built out a lot of wealth and can pass it down to the next generation

Inherited wealth also does definitely trickle down. A person typically has 2 kids 4 grand kids 8 great grand kids 16 great-great grand kids etc. So within just 4 generations the wealth is spread 1/16th to 16 people. There is also charity and divorce which speeds up the process and even people who have no kids might pass the lot onto a hospital or homeless shelter etc.

Also inheritances are very widely spread, its not the 1% its the 75% passing down homes to their kids

Why assume that goods and services provide value? Consumerism often turns us into muppets that don't even realise we are being exploited.

I hate that word its the go to argument for lefties. We do not have 'consumerism'
In fact how can you argue both that we have so much money that we spend it on !!!! we dont need and also argue that people are poor because of the rich keep them poor.
The reality is most people do not waste their money they buy things they want there may be very few cases in people buying stuff they regret but even then most people can return their unwanted gifts/purchases for a full refund.

What about the power disparties between different groups in society and the inequality that results from that? Do you think Africa regards the trading relationship it has had with the West in the last 300 years as a simple fair transaction?

They have mostly themselves to blame, their own peoples corruption can indeed mean others can take advantage of that corruption. But that is not limited to africa you could say the same about russia where the party leaders become billionaires while the proletariat suffered shortages poverty and a police state.

economic

Moby wrote: »

You wouldn't have believed we had a crash going by what you've written above lol! Goods and services sometimes provide value and sometimes they don't. Consumerism is often defined by greed and exploitation. Look at the betting companies and how they are now being challenged. Also it may be hard for you to understand this but often people with mental health problems can't take responsibility for their welfare for the self evident reason that they have a problem in the first place! Inheritance tax should be 100%. Morally speaking, people who stand to inherit large sums haven’t done anything to earn that money. An accident of birth placed them in a comparatively wealthy family and they’ve benefited from that their whole life. In a world where we have decided to have a state why should dead people get generous rates of tax and why should their offspring benefit because they haven't done anything to earn the money being taxed have they! Africa has been exploited by the west for centuries and it's nothing to do with IQ which is now generally accepted to be a risible measure of anything of value anyway!

If you have 100% inheritance tax, this money is going to the public, what makes you think they deserve this wealth more then the people/entities that the estate owner wishes their wealth to be passed onto?

IQ has everything to do with economic success as a country as a whole.

There is help available for those with mental illness. Those who do suffer from it are very likely to be around those that dont who care for them and so those who care for them will guide them in the right direction usually.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

Moby wrote: »

Inheritance tax should be 100%.

How much inheritance tax do you think the government would collect under such a regime?

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

You wouldn't have believed we had a crash going by what you've written above lol! Goods and services sometimes provide value and sometimes they don't

What good or service did you buy freely this month which did not provide value to you?

Consumerism is often defined by greed and exploitation.

consumerism does not exist it is made up
The poor clearly cant buy !!!! they dont need
The rich can buy !!!! they dont need but mostly dont, but its nice that you are concerned about them spending their money more wisely
The middle does have disposable income and can buy !!!! they dont need but they want that !!!! they want a holiday once in a while they want to buy some perfume they want to go out to a restaurant once a month that is not unwanted consumerism it is them buying a little comfort they value
So once again consumerism does not exist it is made up

Look at the betting companies and how they are now being challenged.

Gambling is an addiction it is not 'consumerism'
Luckily only a small percentage of the population is addicted to this and it crosses the poor/rich divide if anything the rich lose more as they have more to lose

Inheritance tax should be 100%. Morally speaking, people who stand to inherit large sums haven’t done anything to earn that money.

That is absurd lefty notion
The only way you could have that work is if parents stop valuing their children and if that happened society would be far worse. There are indeed some people who dislike their children a lot and they dont leave them anything guess what they dont donate their savings to the labor party to spend how they wish they just up their consumption on fast cars loose women and holidays so they have nothing left to give
People would get around it by simply gifting wealth or emigrating but even if somehow you managed to enforce it 100% no way around the result would simply be people produce less and spend more on !!!! they dont value a lot becuase they value those things still more than a 100% tax

An accident of birth placed them in a comparatively wealthy family and they’ve benefited from that their whole life.

You start from the premise that the wealth was stolen and is stolen wealth passed onto the kids

If I choose to consume less and save some money so I can pass it onto my kids how is that bad who are you to say that is evil or wrong?

If I decided to go on 6 expensive holidays a year and end up at age 70 with nothing is that better for you or the country or me or my kids?

In a world where we have decided to have a state why should dead people get generous rates of tax and why should their offspring benefit because they haven't done anything to earn the money being taxed have they!

A person is entitled to do anything they want with their post tax income (savings).
Who are you to say they cant pass it onto their kids
Who are you to say that not saving or spending on lessor things is a higher moral goal than passing it onto their kids?

Africa has been exploited by the west for centuries and it's nothing to do with IQ which is now generally accepted to be a risible measure of anything of value anyway!

Indeed africa was exploited but they were not alone. Almost all nations exploited other nations. Almost all nations had slaves either literally or for all intents and purposes.

Needless to say they are not being exploited today apart from their own leaders screwing them over

IQ or not they are the last continent to develop all but south africa are still very poor there are clearly some structural problems if 49/50 sub Saharan countries are still third world

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

You wouldn't have believed we had a crash going by what you've written above lol

We had an economic recession they happen from time to time
It was not that bad at any point did you feel like we become a third world country?

Pretty much the main thing that happened was some indexes numbers went down for a few years. The number of homes did not fall, the number of power stations did not fall, the number of roads/rail/ports/airports did not fall

We are rich today, we we rich before 2007 and we were rich in between 2007 and today.


The oddity is the communist fools who are jumping up and down at their 30 years wait for capitalism to fail and they think they were proven right in 2007 but its just their idiotic confirmation bias. You sit at work typing away at how evil and !!!! the free markets are with a full belly a warm office high technology at your finger tips and total freedom to live the life you choose for yourself. Grow up and see what we have is great it works it works very very well

economic

The question is will the poor African countries develop? Is their national level of intelligence good enough for this? What can be done now to help future generations increase wealth? Surely IQ is one of if not the most important and so that should be targeting to be improved? Once you have smarter people they will see through corrupt governments, and hopefully overthrow them.

GreatApe

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

How much inheritance tax do you think the government would collect under such a regime?

True lefty goal is not to help the poor they dont give a !!!! about the poor other than it in their minds gives them the moral authority to do whatever they please at the guise of helping the poor

100% inheritance taxes or ridiculously high income taxes are not to help the poor they are to try and kill off the rich. Their underlying drive is hatred for the rich not compassion for the poor

If they had an once of sense they would stop and look at countries like the UK. We have it great we have no real poverty we have so much in this country we live as free lives as is possible with as much opportunity as is possible. If they were honest they would admit, oh well yes 95% of things in this country are very good its the 5% I am going to fix. But that is a stupid dangerous gamble if 95% of things are great then you need to think very very carefully about changing things because you could well end up instead of going to 100% things great to going to a system where a lot less than 95% of things are great