Intestacy rules not followed

missbee79

Hi I wonder if any one can help please.
My grandmother died in May and despite her telling me that my Uncle had her Will - it has now transpired that she has died intestate leaving 7 children. She often told me how much money she had and since her death my uncle divided her estate as he pleases. He has left 2 brothers out and not shared the remainder equally. I believe her estate to be approx £50k but I have no proof only my grandmothers word. He has offered no explanation on how her estate was divided - he hasnt applied for probate or letters of administration and simply gave 4 envelopes of unequal cash to his 4 brothers and sisters totalling £20k.
When finally asked for an explanation he said he was highly offended and refused to meet up to discuss further. We politely wrote to him asking for an explanation and he wrote back admitting that he had not followed the rules of intestacy and asked all family members to return the cash they had received in order for him to now divide equally. He knows that this is not possible in my mums case as she bought a small car with her share. He has also offered no explanation on the value of her estate or offered to provide proof.
My mum and uncle have sought legal advice but have been told by the firm that due to the small estate it would not be beneficial to the family to proceed down the legal route as the costs would outweigh any benefits.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how we can get some closure on this, a i feel he has manipulated the situation to his advantage and potentially stole £25-£30kk from my Grandmothers estate. Please help

Yorkshireman99

missbee79 wrote: »

Hi I wonder if any one can help please.
My grandmother died in May and despite her telling me that my Uncle had her Will - it has now transpired that she has died intestate leaving 7 children. She often told me how much money she had and since her death my uncle divided her estate as he pleases. He has left 2 brothers out and not shared the remainder equally. I believe her estate to be approx £50k but I have no proof only my grandmothers word. He has offered no explanation on how her estate was divided - he hasnt applied for probate or letters of administration and simply gave 4 envelopes of unequal cash to his 4 brothers and sisters totalling £20k.
When finally asked for an explanation he said he was highly offended and refused to meet up to discuss further. We politely wrote to him asking for an explanation and he wrote back admitting that he had not followed the rules of intestacy and asked all family members to return the cash they had received in order for him to now divide equally. He knows that this is not possible in my mums case as she bought a small car with her share. He has also offered no explanation on the value of her estate or offered to provide proof.
My mum and uncle have sought legal advice but have been told by the firm that due to the small estate it would not be beneficial to the family to proceed down the legal route as the costs would outweigh any benefits.
Does anybody have any suggestions on how we can get some closure on this, a i feel he has manipulated the situation to his advantage and potentially stole £25-£30kk from my Grandmothers estate. Please help

To obtain the money from the bank accounts he will have to have signed an indemnity. If someone now applies for letters of administration they will be able to revolver the funds from the bank who will try to recover them from the culprit. However this will not be easy without knowing the banks. You could go to the police but they may not be interested. Perhaps a letter saying what you plan to do might bring him to his senses.

missbee79

Thanks. We know her account details so we could try this route.
Much appreciated!

Margot123

I'm sorry for your loss and the stress you are going through.

Your solicitor will have provided you with the best advice already, and it appears that any Court action will be nonviable. Costs for such cases can run to £40k+, even for something fairly straightforward.

It may be worth investigating if there is evidence of fraud. Although it may be that your Grandmother and Uncle had joint bank accounts.
Before contacting the Police, it would be wise to consult your solicitor. However even if fraud can be proven, it doesn't mean the situation would be rectified financially.

missbee79

Thankyou Margot - it does seem that going down the legal route will prove to be too expensive and its very frustrating that the law only seems to be available to those who can afford it.

It has been suggested that we apply for letters of administration and Probate as this would then give us the legal right to request her bank statements etc and administer her Estate correctly - does this seem viable?
Also what would be the consequences for my uncle who has acted unlawfully? Would the beneficiaries need to pay back what they have received to correct the estate as, in my mums case, she has spent hers prior to realizing what a mess this was.

PasturesNew

missbee79 wrote: »

Would the beneficiaries need to pay back what they have received to correct the estate as, in my mums case, she has spent hers prior to realizing what a mess this was.

It's all about how much you should have had -v- what you got.

If the car was, say, £10k and she should have received £20k from the estate then hold onto the car and await £10k in the future when it's sorted.

If the car was, say, £40k and she should have received £20k then the car would need to be sold to hand back £20k to the pot, to be given to whoever it was, or borrow the money to keep the car.

Money handed out doesn't need to be handed back to start again .... somebody just needs to work out the figures properly and then compare to who got what and work out how to move forward from that.

If your Xmas dinner were served up on your plate and then the server realised they'd given people 3 potatoes instead of 2 and they'd now run out - you'd not all scrape your dinners back into all the serving dishes and start again, you'd just compare what you'd got to what you should have had ...and hand back one spud.

Yorkshireman99

missbee79 wrote: »

Thankyou Margot - it does seem that going down the legal route will prove to be too expensive and its very frustrating that the law only seems to be available to those who can afford it.

It has been suggested that we apply for letters of administration and Probate as this would then give us the legal right to request her bank statements etc and administer her Estate correctly - does this seem viable?
Also what would be the consequences for my uncle who has acted unlawfully? Would the beneficiaries need to pay back what they have received to correct the estate as, in my mums case, she has spent hers prior to realizing what a mess this was.

It is a very tricky situation as the uncle has stolen the money and then given some of it away. The recipients probably could be forced to return it as it is stolen property. However I don’t think the police will be interested.

Silvertabby

We politely wrote to him asking for an explanation and he wrote back admitting that he had not followed the rules of intestacy and asked all family members to return the cash they had received in order for him to now divide equally.

Is it possible that your grandmother had any debts? Contrary to popular belief, loans, credit card debts, utility arrears, etc are not automatically written off after death - they have to be repaid from the estate, if there is one.

If so, then it may be that your uncle wants the money back to pay off these bills. Yorkshireman may confirm, but my understanding is that if the administrator of an estate keeps/distributes the money instead of using it to pay off any debts, then the administrator becomes personally liable for said debts up to the limit of the money he had misappropriated.

gingercordial

Why would your grandmother think and say she'd made a will when there wasn't one? You even had some details on your other thread:

"The Will was a simple WHSmith one and definitely not registered she told me my uncle had it which he had denied."

I find it very hard to believe your grandmother would have imagined this to the extent of knowing where she'd got the template from.

What I mean by this is I suspect there was a will, your uncle didn't like the contents, and is saying there never was one because he thought (wrongly) that this meant he can do what he likes. Maybe she left everything to one of the other siblings and nothing to him. Maybe she left everything to the cats' home.

I don't think she died intestate at all.

OP, if I were you I would confront my uncle (with someone else there as a witness) and ask where is the will that your grandmother told you, in detail, that she'd made and given to him. Or get a solicitor to write and ask this question formally. If you can remember when she told you this (even the year) give details.

He might even admit there was one but say it wasn't valid as not properly signed or something - in which case that's an admission there was a document and you should ask him to produce it to prove it is not valid.

But of course if it does exist, the contents might not be to your/your mother's benefit either!

Margot123

This is all conjecture.

If the will cannot be found by all means available, then it does not exist in Law, and Grandma has died intestate. It is irrelevant who said what, it's the paper document that counts as evidence.

missbee79

Thanks everyone.

ive spoken to a number of solicitors today and it seems the cost of taking legal advice on this would run into the thousands.

Despite my uncle not following the rules of intestacy, and not accounting for £20k, it seems he is above the law as we cannot afford the legal advice to correct this.

We have tried to be reasonable and he is unwilling to provide any reasonable explanation - I am going to try my Citizens Advice tomorrow, but Im not too hopeful.

It seems to me that the Law is only there for people who can afford it.