Probate & illegal dealings

getmore4less

Ziggazee wrote: »

OP - why does this bother you so much? You've already been told that the Executors are not doing anything illegal - and you've already told us that the house passes to them anyway.


Are you just sore because you've not been left what you wanted in the will?

I forgot that...

not only are they the legal owners as executors they are the beneficial owners as well.

Depending on the wording of the will that could also have been from DOD.

Chances are the only official body that would have any interest in what's going on might be HMRC they only care if there is taxes to pay.

Margot123

"so as we stand the property & the estate are owned by no one......".

Common sense should tell you that isn't true. Otherwise there would be people queuing up to take possession of deceased peoples' property just by moving in and living in them.
Just listen to how farcical that sounds!

sammy1234567

Stop worrying about this and go back to your normal life.
Sorry for your loss.

Tuesday_Tenor

Kazzybee

If Inheritance Tax is due, then this needs to be paid within 6 months of date of death. If it is not, then interest will be charged by HMRC. IHT is payable based on value at date of death.
https://www.gov.uk/paying-inheritance-tax

I'm not sure what business it is of yours , or in whose interests you wish to act, but the things you could, possibly, do are:
A) Make surecthe executors understand the IHT situation.
Alert HMRC

However, bear in mind that
- you really need to have seen the will to be sure of basic facts
- the estate will have the double IHT threshold (depending if any was used up by the estate of the first of the couple to die)
- the property may have been gifted to the beneficiaries during the deceased's lifetime. Possibly there is no estate actually requiring probate? Even in this scenario there could still be IHT implications, BUT dependent how long ago the gift was made, the implications could mean that the estate is under the IHT threshold.
- if IHT IS due, how do you know that the executors haven't lodged the estimated IHT with HMRC (to avoid the interest charges) even if they haven't yet applied for probate?
There are an awful lot of unknowns there, so you need to tread cautiously and be clear about what you are trying to achieve, and for whom.

As pointed out by all the other respondents, the executors have done nothing illegal by renting out the house. Their POWER to deal with the property comes from the will. Probate is a mechanism for proving to others that they are the people who have been invested with this power. Probate IS required if the estate involves a property (and under various other conditions) and the executors cannot actually sell or transfer the property without the Grant of Probate. They can do anything else with the property that is in the best interest of the estate. If they are the only two beneficiaries and they fail as executors to apply for probate for many years they will be making a mess for themselves (or for someone else to sort out if they die) but will not have committed any criminal act.

Tuesday_Tenor

Kazzybee

If Inheritance Tax is due, then this needs to be paid within 6 months of date of death. If it is not, then interest will be charged by HMRC. IHT is payable based on value at date of death.
https://www.gov.uk/paying-inheritance-tax

I'm not sure what business it is of yours , or in whose interests you wish to act, but the things you could, possibly, do are:
A) Make surecthe executors understand the IHT situation.
Alert HMRC
However, bear in mind that
- you really need to have seen the will to be sure of basic facts
- the estate will have the double IHT threshold (depending if any was used up by the estate of the first of the couple to die)
- the property may have been gifted to the beneficiaries during the deceased's lifetime. Possibly there is no estate actually requiring probate? Even in this scenario there could still be IHT implications, BUT dependent how long ago the gift was made, the implications could mean that the estate is under the IHT threshold.
- if IHT IS due, how do you know that the executors haven't lodged the estimated IHT with HMRC (to avoid the interest charges) even if they haven't yet applied for probate?
There are an awful lot of unknowns there, so you need to tread cautiously and be clear about what you are trying to achieve, and for whom.

As pointed out by all the other respondents, the executors have done nothing illegal by renting out the house. Their POWER to deal with the property comes from the will. Probate is a mechanism for proving to others that they are the people who have been invested with this power. Probate IS required if the estate involves a property (and under various other conditions) and the executors cannot actually sell or transfer the property without the Grant of Probate. They can do anything else with the property that is in the best interest of the estate. If they are the only two beneficiaries and they fail as executors to apply for probate for many years they will be making a mess for themselves (or for someone else to sort out if they die) but will not have committed any criminal act.

Yorkshireman99

I wonder why we have seen no response from the OP for a fortnight? Hopefully (s)he now understands the reality of the situation.

Margot123

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

I wonder why we have seen no response from the OP for a fortnight? Hopefully (s)he now understands the reality of the situation.

As I've often said, some people simply want agreement with their theories, rather than independent advice. When the consensus opposes their preconceptions, they more often than not go silent.
We can only hope they have taken on board the advice that was given, and experiences recounted.