Smart Parking - Fistral Beach - failure to meet POFA2012 conditions?

nosferatu1001

Time isnt ticking away. Noone pays, so the higher charge isnt relevant.

They had to supply the documentation alongside it. To make it absolutely clear you appeal around day 26 of the 28 day appeals period. They only have 21 days to get the documents to you.

Appeal online.

POPLA cannot refuse the appeal. This is settled law.

daveb99

Thanks, when you say no one pays, what do you mean by that?

Also when does the 28 day appeal period start? There is no mention of appeal timescales at all on the PCN, just the options for contesting the parking charge.

Umkomaas

Thanks, when you say no one pays, what do you mean by that?

No one with any sense, especially given the information and results shown on this forum.

Also when does the 28 day appeal period start? There is no mention of appeal timescales at all on the PCN, just the options for contesting the parking charge.

Contesting/appealing - one and the same. 28 days from the date on the PCN addressed to you.

daveb99

Thanks again for the replies.

So having re-read the relevant POFA 2012 Paragraphs for leased vehicles, and taking into account the replies received above, would the following course of action be the correct way to proceed at this stage? :

1. Ignore any further demands for payment, including payment of the "full settlement" once the 14 day reduced charge period has passed
2. Wait until Day 26 after the date on the PCN, then contest the charge with the PPC, using the Edna Basher template letter.
3. If required, take the appeal to POPLA

Clarification on the following would be appreciated:

1. If contesting the charge by post, is it best to post with a simple proof of posting, or with recorded delivery? What about allowing time for Christmas postal delays?
2. If contesting on the PPC's website, presumably there is no mandatory requirement to include supporting information (e.g. copy of parking ticket)?

nosferatu1001

1) You should not get any furhther ones before you do
2) which you absolutely do as you have written above
3) when they fali to cancel - they WILL reject - you take to POPLA and win.

a) NEVER EVER recorded. First class, free proof of posting. I thought Smmart has an online system? Why not just use that? It is 2 WORKING days for deemed service, so allow for bank holidays and weekends
b) No, and probably no facility to do so either. Just make sure you get some proof you submitted the appeal - screenshots are good.

daveb99

Thanks. Also can someone confirm that this is the correct process that should have been followed by the PPC:

1) PPC (Smart Parking) has to write to the registered keeper within 14 days of the alleged parking offence - in this case a lease company.
2) The lease company has to send the details of the Hirer and the documents required by Para 13.2 within 28 days to the PPC
3) The PPC writes to the Hirer within 21 days of receiving the information from the lease company, with a NTK and the documents required by para 13.2

The hirer becomes the keeper, for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of POFA 2012.

Regarding the appeal timescales, on the basis of the 21 day stipulation above in point 2 above, is there any reason why the hirer should not contest the charges on day 21 after the "issue date" on the NTK - rather than wait until day 26?

Edna_Basher

Given that Smart didn't comply with POFA when they sent the original postal PCN to the lease company, they've already forfeited the right to hold the hirer liable. In the absence of Smart's compliance with Paragraph 9, the provisions of Paragraph 13 are not an issue for the lease company for the simple reason that there is no liability to transfer to the hirer - the lease company were within their rights to tell Smart to FRO.

There's no real reason why you need to wait before submitting your "appeal" (as hirer / lessee) to Smart. You can do this online via their website.

daveb99

Edna Basher - thanks. Which section of POFA paragraph 9 have they failed to comply with when sending the original PCN to the lease company? I've just read through the relevant paragraph but need a little assistance with the specifics....

Edna_Basher

Pretty much all of it.

Fundamentally, Smart don't even attempt to hold the keeper liable. You will see that the PCN to the lease company gives no warning that Smart will have the right to recover from the keeper any amount of the parking charge that remains unpaid if they they do not know the name and current address of the driver (as set out under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4).

With regard to hire vehicles, Paragraph 13 only applies if the keeper has been given a notice to keeper within the relevant period - where "notice to keeper" is defined as meaning a notice given in accordance with Paragraph 8 or 9 (as the case may be).

In this case, Smart did not deliver a "notice to keeper" (as defined) - thus Paragraphs 13 and 14 cannot apply.

daveb99

Brief update - the appeal was submitted online 3 days ago on day 24 of the 28 days. No reply has been received yet - not sure if that is normal.

Regarding POPLA - if it goes that far, what are the timescales for appealing? A further 28 days after receiving the reply from the PPC?