Shopping centre private car-park sent threatening letter invoicing for £3000

Calvinm

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Good point.

Quote that back at them. Literally say 'Regarding your statement ''...{quote it}...'' I remind you of the regulations regarding ADR. Of course a parking 'ticket' dispute is suitable for ADR. That is precisely why POPLA exists, to give registered keepers an independent appeals process, which was the clear will of Parliament when the POFA 2012 was enacted.

Read this to understand and sound like you know what you are talking about:

A trader is obliged to give the required information under Regulation 19(2), not just blandly state 'we don't think this is suitable for ADR' - a statement that flies in the face of the 2015 regulations and will not be viewed favourably by the Courts.

Finish by saying this, which is similar to your draft but adds a bit more:

Until your client has complied with their obligations I cannot respond properly to the threatened claim and unwarranted demands, in order to make an informed decision and consider my position in relation to the matter. Should your client proceed with this outrageous claim, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Noted. Saying 'thank you' did make me feel uncomfortable but my lack of expertise in writing these things didn't immediately make me think of any alternatives.

After reading the ADR regulations, it is infuriating that they could say such a thing in their letter. My first, naive response to seeing that made me think "Oh, I guess we have to go directly through them then" which I'm sure is exactly what they want. So much of their approach seems to be scaring the average person into submission and making them pay.

Thank you for your advice re: our LBC response, we feel much more comfortable sending this off. We're also in the process of trying to rally together other Meadowhall staff that are affected by this to try to resist this as a larger force.

Fruitcake

From the ADR Act 2015

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/542/pdfs/uksi_20150542_en.pdf

SCHEDULE 3

Regulation 9(4)

Grounds to refuse to deal with a dispute

13. The body may only refuse to deal with a domestic dispute or a cross-border dispute which it is competent to deal with on one of the following grounds—
(a) prior to submitting the complaint to the body, the consumer has not attempted to contact the trader concerned in order to discuss the consumer’s complaint and sought, as a first step, to resolve the matter directly with the trader;
(b) the dispute is frivolous or vexatious;
(c) the dispute is being, or has been previously, considered by another ADR entity or by a court;
(d) the value of the claim falls below or above the monetary thresholds set by the body;
(e) the consumer has not submitted the complaint to the body within the time period specified by the body, provided that such time period is not less than 12 months from the date upon which the trader has given notice to the consumer that the trader is unable to resolve the complaint with the consumer;
(f) dealing with such a type of dispute would seriously impair the effective operation of the body.


None of the above apply, so ADR must be offered for up to 1 year after the PPC have rejected the initial appeal. (My bold)

Calvinm

In addition to this, we have just found one of the windscreen tickets issued. After reading through it, it says

"If payment is not received within 14 days from the date of issue of this Parking Charge Notice the details of the registered keeper will be obtained from the DVLA".

Am I right in thinking that this is incorrect and has to be at least 28 days? If so, is this information I should include in our POPLA appeal? Is this in relation POFA 2012? I can't seem to find it but I swear I read it somewhere. Should we contact the DVLA to find out when the information was accessed?

In addition to this, the ticket also claims that the reason for the PCN being issued is being "Parked in a restricted area" which, in relation to the signage, is not true as the area doesn't count as restricted. There's also an inconsistency with that and the SCS Law LBC as it says the contravention was "parking in a "No Staff Parking Zone", despite being a member of staff" which isn't strictly true either as the area is for "Customers and not on-duty staff". Does this help our case?

PCN: hxxps://i.imgur.com/bnqDoWi.jpg
Signage: hxxps://imgur.com/a/2WrU0
Page from LBC (1): hxxps://i.imgur.com/YAwD1VC.jpg
(2) hxxps://i.imgur.com/2d1ThHH.jpg
(3) hxxps://i.imgur.com/XA15VyT.jpg
NTK: hxxps://imgur.com/PAFYKC6

RobinofLoxley

Links from above post.

PCN: https://i.imgur.com/bnqDoWi.jpg
Signage: https://imgur.com/a/2WrU0
Page from LBC (1): https://i.imgur.com/YAwD1VC.jpg
(2) https://i.imgur.com/2d1ThHH.jpg
(3) https://i.imgur.com/XA15VyT.jpg
NTK: https://imgur.com/PAFYKC6

Umkomaas

Some quick, random points after a brief skim of the images:

1. NtD states £80, NtK states £120 - PoFA non-compliant (does not repeat NtD details). But where has £120 come from? Trading Standards complaint. BPA complaint. DVLA complaint. Outside the maximum charge level of the BPA Code of Practice.

2. The SCS letter is more likely a DRP effort, but given the LBC warning, treat it as LBC and wade in for all the PaP documents.

3. If you haven’t already done so, contact the DVLA and obtain information on by whom and on what dates the keeper data has been requested for the VRM. Give the DVLA a ‘from/to’ range of dates more than wide enough to encompass all dates for which CPP are pursuing your gf.

Calvinm

Umkomaas wrote: »

Some quick, random points after a brief skim of the images:

1. NtD states £80, NtK states £120 - PoFA non-compliant (does not repeat NtD details). But where has £120 come from? Trading Standards complaint. BPA complaint. DVLA complaint. Outside the maximum charge level of the BPA Code of Practice.

2. The SCS letter is more likely a DRP effort, but given the LBC warning, treat it as LBC and wade in for all the PaP documents.

3. If you haven’t already done so, contact the DVLA and obtain information on by whom and on what dates the keeper data has been requested for the VRM. Give the DVLA a ‘from/to’ range of dates more than wide enough to encompass all dates for which CPP are pursuing your gf.

1. After having a quick check over, it seems that the NtD says on the back (but is still not repeated on the NtK) "... [Not paid within 28 days they could contact the DVLA (this is inconsistent with the front of the ticket that says 14 days?) This may result in further action being taken and an admin charge of £40 being added to the Parking Charge Notice". Should I register a complaint with all of these separate institutions about this specifically and then add it to the draft of my POPLA appeal?

2. Will do! What's 'PaP'?

3. Other than sending our response to the LBC, calling the DVLA was first on our list. Once we've got all those dates we will compare them to the issued tickets. Is the fact that they say they can access DVLA information after 14 days of issuing a NtD an isuse? Can this be added to the appeal or does it only matter if they actually accessed the information earlier?

Ryandavis1959

PaP is pre action protocol.

If this ends up in court are you or your girlfriend going to lead your defence in court? Or are you considering a Lay Rep or qualified legal representation?

Calvinm

Ryandavis1959 wrote: »

PaP is pre action protocol.

If this ends up in court are you or your girlfriend going to lead your defence in court? Or are you considering a Lay Rep or qualified legal representation?

I haven't gotten that far if I'm honest, I don't know a lot about the process of a small claims court. I guess the choice would have to be between me or a qualified legal representative, though the latter, I imagine, would be quite expensive. I certainly don't feel prepared to defend in court though either. I'm hoping it doesn't go further than POPLA.

Umkomaas

Calvinm wrote: »

1. After having a quick check over, it seems that the NtD says on the back (but is still not repeated on the NtK) "... [Not paid within 28 days they could contact the DVLA (this is inconsistent with the front of the ticket that says 14 days?) This may result in further action being taken and an admin charge of £40 being added to the Parking Charge Notice". Should I register a complaint with all of these separate institutions about this specifically and then add it to the draft of my POPLA appeal?

2. Will do! What's 'PaP'?

3. Other than sending our response to the LBC, calling the DVLA was first on our list. Once we've got all those dates we will compare them to the issued tickets. Is the fact that they say they can access DVLA information after 14 days of issuing a NtD an isuse? Can this be added to the appeal or does it only matter if they actually accessed the information earlier?

1. I would. There is nothing on the signage that states any add-on amount. As the keeper has 28 days to appeal the Ntk, then this is way too premature and doesn’t fit with either the BPA Code of Practice or the Protection of Freedom Act 2012.

2. https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

3. The DVLA won’t provide the information you are seeking via telephone call. It needs to be in writing. See below.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

You need the DVLA to confirm in writing. In fact you need everything now in writing, so no phone calls on any of this stuff from here on.

If it’s a windscreen ticket, no DVLA access until between days 28 and 56. ANPR camera capture within 14 days. So you need to carefully examine the dates the DVLA provide you to check whether the correct time frame for access was used by CCP.

Calvinm

Umkomaas wrote: »

1. I would. There is nothing on the signage that states any add-on amount. As the keeper has 28 days to appeal the Ntk, then this is way too premature and doesn’t fit with either the BPA Code of Practice or the Protection of Freedom Act 2012.

2. https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

3. The DVLA won’t provide the information you are seeking via telephone call. It needs to be in writing. See below.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html

You need the DVLA to confirm in writing. In fact you need everything now in writing, so no phone calls on any of this stuff from here on.

If it’s a windscreen ticket, no DVLA access until between days 28 and 56. ANPR camera capture within 14 days. So you need to carefully examine the dates the DVLA provide you to check whether the correct time frame for access was used by CCP.

1. I think it does. At the bottom of the sign it says "Parking charges that are not paid within the given period may be passed to a debt recovery agent where you may incur additional costs." Do this statement technically cover the addition £40 "admin" fee from £80 to £120?

EDIT: 19. 9 of the BPA "You should warn drivers that if they delay payment beyond a payment period of 28 days, and you need to take court action or use debt-recovery methods to recover a debt, there may be extra ‘recovery’ charges for debt-recovery action. However, you do not need to say how much these recovery charges are in advance, on your signs or notices."

Will do and yes, it was a windscreen ticket. We'll write to them and send it first thing Monday and will check all the of instances they asked for information, thank you!